Dungeons and Dragons Core Rulebook Gift Set, 4th Edition Reviews

• A radical change of pace

  
  By A1SFP0RU7W60G7 on 2008-06-06
  The meteoric rise of Massively Multiplayer RPGs has created a unprecedentedly-large case study about what works for class advancement and balance. When I was first looking through the promotional material I noticed concepts from the MMO space cropping up: defender(tank), striker(dps), controller, and leader(support). I was initially disappointed by this, but the more I thought about it the more the idea began to grow on me. Every class now has a role within the group so there's no question about what each character should be doing.
  
  The options for character advancement are fewer than previous versions. Whereas 3.x gave you the tools to create just about any type of character, that's not so much the case in 4. For the advanced players who enjoyed making odd concept characters, this is going to be their primary gripe with the system. I'm talking, frothing-at-the-mouth, storm-the-Bastille forum fanboy crazy.
  
  For the rest of the players, who just want to _play_, it's going to be great. You don't have to worry about some powergamer creating a monstrosity of character that starts an arms race with the DM. Even if you don't have a powergamer around, there's very little chance of a player accidentally creating a character that's isn't effective in the group.
  
  What excites me as a player is the fact that you get something cool at every level. It was always kind of boring as a fighter in 3.x: "Another feat. Yawn. This'll be interesting in another dozen levels when my build finally comes together". In 4e, I get something new to play with each time.
  
  What excites me as a DM is that my life got easier. There aren't any "Attack of opportunity" or "grapple" nightmare rules like before. There's less opportunity for rule-lawyering and general powergaming. The various social skills have been streamlined, giving the DM the chance to RP with interested players, while disinterested players can just roll their way through it.
  
  What doesn't excite me is the online component. From what I've seen I don't think WotC has the staff necessary to put out quality software. Anyone remember the e-tools they touted in 2000. No? There's a reason you don't. They got delayed for _years_, and when they finally came out they were terrible, unusable even. Software development at that scale is hard and it's even harder if you're not a software development house and aren't used to managing the projects.
  
  Some people will complain that the new rules are too much like an MMO. It's their choice as to whether that's something they'll enjoy. One thing to keep in mind is this: It doesn't matter if you've been DMing for 30 years, any given MMO sees their rules exercised more in a single weekend that you've done in your career. A MMO is a crucible for finding rules that require a _minimum of human intervention_.
  
  It boils down to this: if you enjoy the act of playing with your group and the rules are an accessory, then you'll love 4e. If you enjoy playing with the rules and your group is an accessory, then you'll hate 4e.
  
  The MM is what you would expect: 150 or so monsters for heroes to fight. There's not much info that would be useful to the player. To help the DM, most monster entries (maybe all?) have an "Encounter Group", which is gives a list of creatures that, together with the current one, would make an appropriate encounter for a group of PCs and that makes sense in the D&D universe. The encounter group gives the recommended level and resulting XP. (Unlike 3.x, XP rewards don't scale based on the PC's level compared to the Challenge Rating. It's like 2E, where each monster has a set XP reward)
  
  If you read the DMG2 for 3.x, the 4e DMG will be quite familiar. Most of the rules have been moved to the PHB, leaving MUCH more space available for giving advice to the DM on how to run a successful game. (If you DM 3.x and haven't read the DMG2, it's worth taking a look at, even if you don't choose to move up to 4e).
  
  The DMG takes a back seat at the table. This is a benefit for both players and DMs. Players don't need to buy it for the magic items(which are now in the PHB) and well-prepared DM could get away with leaving the book at home.
  
  

• Good, but loses that D&D flavor

  
  By A12BL8PMLAG5HX on 2008-06-06
  Since Amazon.com ate a rather longish review I wrote, here's a much shorter one in a nutshell:
  1) Loses a lot of iconic D&D flavor. Dwarves can no longer see in the dark, Liches can no longer paralyze with a touch (and don't really cast spells), Lycanthropes no longer spread lycanthropy via bites (instead they spread a different and even less balanced disease), Magic Missiles can miss, Vampires are no longer affected by sunlight (they just lose regeneration), Angels are no longer good, Devils and Demons are totally different (and even more confusing to tell apart than ever before), Eladrins are elementals, they messed up a lot of D&D's background -- Pelor is now the God of Agriculture and no longer accepts Lawful Good clerics, there's no more Bytopia or the other cool planes to visit, and elves are now faeries.
  
  2) Simplified - but oversimplified. They thought that having 9 alignments was too complicated. So what did they do? Kept the law/chaos good/evil system, but just disallowed certain combinations. You can play a LawfulGood Paladin (or a Chaotic Evil one now, for that matter), but not a Chaotic Neutral, Lawful Neutral or Lawful Evil character. In my opinion, the alignments they disallowed were the most interesting to roleplay. Ask yourself -- is it really simpler to keep a system and then cut holes in it that you can't play? Likewise, they simplified the skill system (by and large in a good way), but added a penalty to all physical skills if you're wearing armor. This is all well and good, except the system is so oversimplified now, it means that if you're wearing full plate and get bitten by a wererat, you now take a penalty on your "saving throw" against disease, because the "save" is a Constitution based skill.
  
  Simplification = good. Oversimplification = bad.
  
  3) WOTC makes characters now, not you. The best advance from 2ed to 3ed D&D was that people could now build their own characters. No longer were you bound to play a kit or class that WOTC made, players could make their own: you could make a Fighter 1 / Rogue 1 / Wizard 18 if you felt like it. It was a powerful system, and one which WOTC believes was too "scary" for people, so they reverted back to the pre-2ed days. Essentially, they pre-roll some classes for you, and then you get to pick from a limited menu of options at each level. Even still, if you're a "fighter" at 1st level, you're a fighter at 30th, with the "paragon paths" and "epic destinies" providing a certain amount of additional customization.
  
  4) Multiclassing is non-existent. Multiclassing was another area that WOTC felt was too "scary" for players, so they removed it. The 4ed system for multiclassing instead more closely resembles the Arcane Disciple feat from 3ed -- it allows classes to gain a certain number of spells and powers from other classes. However, you never actually can become a member of the other class. When I tried making three character concepts in 4ed D&D I was thrown up against this wall in two of them -- the system just isn't powerful enough to carry out the builds I wanted.
  
  5) 4ed has three elf races but no half-orcs. With only eight core races, did we really need three options for playing elves?
  
  5) Mistakes. 4ed needed more work before publishing. The multiclassing rules allow PCs to take class-specific feats from the class they "multiclass" into. However, if you read through the 20 or so class-specific feats in the PHB, only *two* of them can actually be taken by multiclass players, because the feats nearly all require class abilities from the class which *you can't get -- ever -- from multiclassing*.
  
  From a balance perspective, people have already broken 4ed with Cascade of Blades and Seal of Binding. (The other comment on here is wrong -- they really are that broken.) With either of these abilities, you can essentially kill anything in 4ed D&D. A 30th level 4ed character, using nothing but the PHB can perfectly solo Orcus 1) Without taking a single point of damage, and 2) Kill him dead on the first round of combat. Read WOTC's boards if you want the details, but the point is, 4ed is in many ways less balanced than even the wild-and-wooly 3ed. 3ed's version of Cascade of Blades, Avalanche of Blades, was more balanced and couldn't do that trick.
  
  4ed isn't all bad. The skills and rituals are pretty good, and the system should be fun to play overall. The reason I'm giving it 2 stars is not because it's a bad roleplaying system, but because they're calling this new roleplaying system D&D, when they've 1) Regressed a lot from 3ed, choosing simplicity over the ability for players to have fun making their characters and 2) They've taken out a huge number of the tropes that made D&D D&D. Vampire lords running around in daylight shooting magic missiles that miss at Dwarves who don't mine any more since they can't see in the dark just doesn't seem very D&Dish to me.
  
  

• A new generation of a classic game

  
  By A1UYJ83GDXWF94 on 2008-06-06
  At first I was a bit skeptical about this new edition after reading a lot of the material coming from the forums and seasoned veterans of table top RPGs, but when I picked it up and tried it out for myself, I was pleasantly surprised. A lot of the fears people had about the game being over the top action is somewhat unfounded, if anything its quite the opposite.
  
  I whipped up a quick adventure about a mind flayer controlling town politics and went at it. The first thing I noticed was that the players spent much less time looking up modifiers and rolling dice then they did interacting with the game world. With the skills being simplified a bit, it made the game so much easier to get to the bottom of things and actually, dare I say it, role-play. I threw in a complex skill challenge and was impressed out how smooth and excited the players were just interacting with the local thieves guild, which is something I havent seen in awhile.
  
  Eventually the players were forced in combat. I remember in 3.x there seemed to be a formula for combat depending on the type of enemy involved. That exists to a degree, but combat is so much smoother than it used to be. The abilities that the classes get really mesh well and the new system is so much easier. Instead of 4 steps for a grapple its one! The players acted much more tactically and really got into the nitty gritty only relying on the dice when it was completely necessary. Throw in a few action phrases and its a much more focused game play experience.
  
  The dungeon masters guide and monster manual feel like theyve been designed for ease of use as well. Some people will say the game has been dumbed down, and I know what they mean. I felt that way until I saw the game in action and realized the new strategic depth that was never there before. I can already see a strategy guide coming out for battle strategy. Overall I would recommend this product to both veterans and new people to the hobby-both for its new ease of use and re-imagining of a classic hobby.
  
  

• A Step Backwards

  
  By A1SK0PEHRA2D2W on 2008-06-06
  not exactly the next step in the evolution of the game. touted as a "steamlined" and "improved" re-imagining of the classic game that has been around in several incarnations over the past 30-some-odd-years; what it truly amounts to is an advanced tactical board game.
  
  much of what made the game great is stripped away in an effort to emulate mmo (massive multiplayer online) games like world of warcraft; intentionally dumbing down the game in an effort to market it to a wider demographic. elements of game play that focused on actual role-play and story telling are minimized in favor of combat.
  
  instead of taking what was good in both types of games and creating a higher, more elegant game that becomes greater than the sum of its parts, it instead is a souped up throwback to the chainmal days of d&d with mmo hidebound adhearance to mmo sensabilities.
  
  while i can appreciate that hasbro may have had the best of intentions in crafting this version of the game, it fails in the eyes of this and many other fans who have played for so many years. it plays more like other sword & sorcery genre board games (descent, runebound, world of warcraft), and may in fact be the best and finest board game in the genre. but, sadly, it is no true rpg and those who seek that out in this game will be sorely disatisfied.
  
  

• A Review from a DM

  
  By A2T3W2C4UI6UIA on 2008-06-08
  Alright, here's a warning: if you do like 3.5, don't look at this. If you've found all the flaws I have, then do look.
  
  3.5's flaws were painfully clear. Powergamers were frequent and cheap, using tactics that allow 16th level characters to one shot monsters double their level. The system actually discouraged roleplaying and skill use, since the wizard could just do all of that. Long live the wizard and the sorcerer, they were the only classes really worth using. Story took a backseat because roleplaying took a backseat.
  
  4th has fixed these flaws. Every class has been made even. This means that non-casters can actually do cool stuff.
  
  The main power of powergamers, multiclassing, has been made fair. You wanna multiclass? Take a feat for it. Granted, I don't like the actual feats given, but that's what houserules are for.
  
  The skills have been consolidated into a sensible few. C'mon, if you're gonna be good at climbing you'll be good at swimming. The skill point system has been removed, turning it from the longest to the shortest area you spend on your character sheet.
  
  Combat has sped up, and has gotten alot better. Movement is expected and encouraged, giving the game a more cinematic feel.
  
  There are a few flaws besides the multiclassing feats, and here they are:
  
  Most of the classes are more homogeneous, with the descriptive text and name being the only difference in some powers.
  
  There just isn't...enough, to the system, but it's really not a flaw, it's a fact. The Player's Hand is so full of stuff that it couldn't hold anymore, which is why there are supplements coming out. As time goes on, the homogeneous feel of the classes will vanish, since new options will open up as time goes on. And that's what homebrewing's for anyway.
  
  My two games of 4th have been better than the last two years of 3.5. Long live 4th. Don't listen to the others, this is the real deal. This is fantasy roleplaying. This is Dungeons and Dragons.
  
  
• 4th edition D&D -- a great game
  By ABRIPHC3L60SD on 2008-06-09
  I call the new rule set:
  
  "Everything that is old is new again"
  
  As other reviewers have mentioned, there are significant changes to the rules. Having lived with the rules for the past 6 months, I can say that the game is much more balanced (in general) and most importantly -- REALLY FUN TO PLAY AND DM.
  
  I played and ran a significant amount of 3.5 rules and the system had come to the natural conclusion. There were so many rules and options that it was becoming unplayable.
  
  I'll give a few examples:
  
  * The "Dunkin Donuts" effect of prestige classes was getting silly. The "I'm a fighter...well, really a Fighter 4, Barbarian 1, Occult Slayer 2, Reaping Mauler 2, etc..." was becoming the normal with high level characters...fighter types in particular.
  
  This was a nightmare for the DM to keep track of everyone's abilities at high level
  
  * Monsters had too much to do...that's right, monsters, especially complicated or high level monsters, were just a pain to run. I can cast this laundry list of spells -- but really, I only cast 3-4 of my most powerful spells ever
  
  * One word -- grappling. Let's use it in a sentence:
  In 3.5, some of the most difficult and annoying rules revolve around...grappling.
  -----------------------------------------------------------------
  I have already heard the complaints -- it's too simple, it doesn't allow flexibility, etc..
  
  At least for me, I am more than willing to give up flexibility (at least for now...you know there are more books on the way in the next year) for now in order to have a system that is fast and fun to play
  
  What's great about 4th edition?
  
  * Skill Challenges -- awesome mechanic -- basically allows you to abstract almost any situation and roleplay with very little restrictions.
  
  Negotiations with the town council -- skill challenge
  Trying to get out of a maze -- skill challenge
  Playing a game of poker against an opponent -- skill challenge
  
  You can use just about any skill or ability to try to influence the challenge -- one person used streetwise in the poker game to try to tip me off on the other person's hand.
  
  * Race matters -- just like in the original rule books, race plays a big part. A dwarven fighter really is different than an elf or eladrin fighter and that's just cool
  
  * The DMG is a great book. They are not afraid to call it as they see it and "expose" the various types of gamers, what they want and how to handle them well in a group.
  
  * Easy for the target market (12+ -- especially on the lower end of the age range) to pick up the game and run with it.
  --------------------------------------------------------------
  I was a huge skeptic going into this new editon but I have converted and become an advocate for 4th edition
  
  
  
• Worst Edition of the Game To Date
  By ALESTXKG8P576 on 2008-06-10
  If you're a longtime fan of Dungeons & Dragons, this isn't the game for you.
  
  Much of the game's rich history and iconic elements have been sacrificed in an effort to simplify the game to attract new gamers. The game is far less flexible than 3rd Edition.
  
  Character classes are loaded with gonzo powers and forced into tighter niches than ever before. Multiclassing is nearly non-existant. Classic races that have been with the game from the beginning have been jettisoned to make room for bland, flavorless new ones like the dragonborn.
  
  Many of the iconic monsters have been drastically altered to fit into a new, unnecessary cosmology and core setting. Succubi are now devils, despite always being demons, and demons as a whole are now related to elementals. Angels are no longer exemplars of good. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
  
  Most of the iconic monsters have had their abilities stripped down to just a handful of powers, and nearly all non-combat abilities are gone.
  
  The names of many of the new creatures and variants are bland. The flavor text is nearly nonexistant.
  
  Monsters can only improve in a few cookie-cutter roles, such as "skirmisher", rather than truly advanced to become better at what makes them unique.
  
  Worst of all, many iconic monsters (for example, frost giants) have been left out of the first Monster Manual and reserved for later books.
  
  With all the focus on per-encounter abilities, bosses and minions, and "marking" opponents, it feels more like an MMORPG like World of Warcraft than a good ol' pen-and-paper RPG.
  
  If you're a fan of the past editions of the game, save your money and wait until next year for Paizo's Pathfinder RPG, which looks more like the heir apparent to the D&D throne.
  
  
  
• Good financial deal.... still... just say no...
  By A3QFB618LIEFF8 on 2008-06-14
  OK....... I really REALLY REALLY wanted to love this game. To be honest I've been a sucker for every incarnation of DnD that's come out. I liked all of em in their own way. I prebought this one and every 'pre-book' they've put out... We were all so eager for this new incarnation. It read so well. I can't believe this, but this game has actually managed to depress me!! I HAVE played it. Just spent three hours playing, in fact.
  
  When we finished the party reported that they had the distinct feeling that we had just played a board game version of WOW. Now we all LOVE WOW in our gaming group.. but that's NOT what we sat down to play around a table. We saw nothing 'quick' or 'streamlined' about the gaming experience. We moved pieces around a board adhereing to movement rules and 'squares' for this and that in a fashion that reminded me way too much of the old 'Heroes Quest', albeit a complicated version! Were the game mechanics good? Yes. Why did I give it a 'one star'? Because whilst the game is a good miniature warfare game it seemed to rob the flavor of DnD. The character creation was extrememly confined and the selections were limited. Gone was the ability to customize your character to the point that you actually felt like you had something unique. You will feel as if WOC is controlling the direction your character takes. The game DEMANDED a board and game pieces.. I've always felt that DnD's flavor relied on the 'minds eye', which is so much more colorful in my head than staring at plastic pieces on a piece of cardboard. I do realize that the 'original' DnD was just that, a wargame with a fantasy element. But I feel it evolved into so much more... I guess we've 'returned to our roots'... so why do I feel like we climbed back into the primordial ooze?!
  
  A great deal of the time the magic users felt like they were 'hitting the hot button key'. They had one or two actions that they relied on every round to cause the maximum amount of damage. No inovation or imagination. Everything was geared towards 'how does this directly effect combat'.
  
  The DM's guide isn't that bad. Reminds me a LOT of the first edition book. Information on how to be an effective dm, traps, dungeons, and artifacts. Not what 'thirders' would expect, but not bad.
  
  The Monster Manual is awful. A third of the pictures are just rehashed from all the previous Monster Manuals. The book is concerned with stats so you can play your miniature game effectively. Again.... great if your into miniature gaming. The ecology and culture information is virtually non-existant. Make all the arguments you want about this now being in the pervue of the DM.. the honest answer is that WOC is being lazy. You have a vast variety of stats to place against your carefully created stats, but very little flavor to guide you in roleplaying the encounters.
  
  I have read that the streamlined combat will enhance the rolplaying as you'll have more time available.... that was really exciting.. too bad this wasn't the case. Going to miniatures and a combat board, whilst carefully figuring out where your party and the encounter is, everytime combat arose was time consuming. You'll also notice that you'll have to change the map everytime, of course, which is also time consuming.
  
  If you LOVE miniature wargaming. If Warhammer is something you daydream about.... this is the game for you! As a miniature game experience it ranks a three or four...
  
  If you love games that take place in your head fired by limitless imagination then your probably going to be disappointed.
  
  I really feel like power gamers are going to LOVE this game and probably flame me for my remarks. The game is geared towards being 'godlike'. I'm not knocking this. If you love powergaming and twinking then this is DEFFINITLEY the game for you. To each his or her own. You should buy it immediately... and keep DnD fiscally sound enough to perhaps manage an inevitable rewrite that might restore my faith.
  
  Ironically I'll be keeping my set... I think it'll make a great board game for those rare nights when I just wanna run through dungeons killings things and working off frustrations. According to the DMG I don't even need a DM to do this..... Sound like any RPG you ever heard of???? No story teller... no RPG. Just another board wargame.. albeit a pretty good one.
  
  Good day!
  
  
  
• Incomplete and overly Simplistic (also Smudges!)
  By AYMFEY30AL48T on 2008-06-10
  Good:
  
  * Faster combat (depending on class choice)
  * Good Artwork
  
  Bad:
  
  *Pages smudge - poor quality printing
  * No druid - have to continuously pay for more core books and who knows which one this class will be in?
  * Erasure of old cosmology, replaced with simplistic game that resembles video game but way more expensive to support
  * Rows upon rows of tables will not draw MMORPG players
  * Supplementary online material costs $15/month - the cost for ALL of WoW
  * Resused a good deal of art but no savings passed to consumer
  * Limited creativity - lots of things you can't do
  * Classes feel generic - playing a fighter is like playing a wizard
  
  
• The Good and The Bad
  By AQUZNAMO4F7PF on 2008-06-09
  I really wanted to like this edition but I can't get over the fact that some of the 'fixes' to streamline the system either were unneeded or are very limiting. It gives you the feel that it is more of a supplement designed for the D&D Insider, then a stand alone game system.
  
  A few notes about the individual books.
  
  The Players Handbook: Being a new system, with new terminology and definitions, a glossary should have been included. I have spent far too much time paging through the book `double checking' to see if I understood some of the new terms. I enjoyed the power system, it opened play to some fun tactical options and cinematic abilities, but it really neutered the flexibility of spell casters. The skill system is okay at best. Most skills are well defined and are duly compressed, like stealth, but others are out of place, like Dungeoneering, or poorly defined, like Diplomacy. I still can not figure out the need to fix the healing system, and completely dislike the surge idea.
  
  The Monster Manual: My favorite parts of the MM are the new powers and the glossary =). Averaging about two pages per creature and giving differing level examples, the space doesn't feel too wasted, but at the same time there is a distinct feeling you are missing out on a lot of monsters.
  
  The Dungeon Masters Guide: Wow, Ummm... Yeah. I would like to balance the good with the bad in my review but I find it difficult to do with this book. I enjoyed the experience point system, the artwork is nice, and I like the system for traps, but I can honestly tell you I don't think I will ever use the book. I was also very disappointed with the near destruction of the magic items system. I understand the `balance' concept they were trying to achieve, but magic items are one of the core untouchables of the D&D system. I think they forgot the fact that the ultimate balance within the magic item system was the DM =).
  
  Overall I think the system is a great source to `borrow' ideas from to supplement your current 3.5 system, but it doesn't have enough substance to stand on it own.
  
  
  
• Very entertaining and fun: As good as you, the players, make it.
  By A33JQGZME1HQEC on 2008-06-07
  I'm still awaiting my shipment of the core books, but from the first-hand impression that I got from playing at a recent convention, I must say that this will be a very enjoyable rendition of the game. Despite the many unfounded criticisms seen here from individuals who are just "eyeballing" the rules, 4th edition was created the way it is for several reasons.
  
  Rolls in combat were simplified to reduce the amount of time to get from one PC to another. It can be very easy for a PC to lose interest in a game when the PC before them rolls 3 attacks for himself and 3 more attacks for each, let's say, elemental that they have summoned. That is 12 attacks to wade through, dragging down the pace of the game. And let's not get into a discussion about a maxed out fighter and Great Cleave against balanced enemies....
  
  Some complaints are also against the lack of "fluff" or descriptive text. I believe that the designers made the core books with this level of general description so that the DM could use their imaginations a bit more. Nothing is more annoying than a PC complaining that my Drow NPC can't be good because, "It doesn't make sense since the book says so." Though this is not a problem with all gaming groups, a lack of too much detail in the CORE BOOKS makes alot of sense to me.
  
  The lack of X favorite class: Whenever I get a chance to play, I really like playing either monks or druids. If WotC decided to delay these classes with the others for the purpose of getting it "just right", I wholeheartedly respect that because I would rather have a good, fleshed out, and effective monk later than a rushed and lackluster one now. If WotC delayed these classes to make an extra buck with a PHB2, then I respect that as well, because, let's face it, it's a good business model and I'd rather have one of my favorite gaming companies who produces one of my favorite games to prosper and explore different gaming terrain than to cling to a system that a few hurt players are complaining over.
  
  Some say that the class roles are too restricting as well, but these are restrictions that we have placed on ourselves this whole time. WotC just made it more official. Throughout all iterations of this game, I doubt very many people rolled up a wizard for the sake of being a front line fighter. No one made a paladin to be a pure back line caster. Those roles are absolutely ridiculous for those fore mentioned classes in any edition of this game. The different tiers (especially paragon tier) allow for a great array of customization. When you gain an opportunity to select a single power when you level up, you choose between 2+ powers presented to you from your current level or below. And what's great is that it is all balanced and easy to employ as you progress.
  
  Roll a d20, add half your level and the necessary ability modifier.
  Compare to Armor Class/Skill check for your result.
  
  Congratulations! You have made an attack roll/skill roll!
  Easy, right?
  
  It seems that for some players, they cannot seem to wrap their head around that concept, even though they have gone through 2nd edition's awful THAC0 system. For these players, nostalgia is more important than improved game mechanics and ease of play for newcomers. The perceived complexity is all in their head and unfounded.
  
  I've always found it curious how much mud can be slung at something without so much as trying it. But in a way, I can understand these players, having bought a lot of 3.0 and 3.5 merchandise as they have. But the fact of the matter is that many of these criticisms are made to give reason to their reluctance to pay extra money for an upgraded game system and also to justify their nostalgia for their favorite edition. Without trying it out for yourself, one cannot know how much they have done right with this edition. Combat is fun for all participants. And as far as role play is concerned, please remember this:
  
  Your experience is only as good as you, the player and dungeon master, allow it to be.
  
  
  P.S. A recent thread speculated that it would be probable to kill Orcus (a God) in one round of combat using Blade Cascade (Unlimited hits until you miss, basically). Ridiculous, for many reasons:
  
  Initiative +22, very possible for him to get the jump on you
  
  AC 48, still hard to hit, even at Epic level
  
  1,525 hit points, a lot of damage for your d6's to get through
  
  A +36 attack as soon as you get close to him that stuns you and knocks you prone
  
  +33 attack that drops you to 0 instantly
  
  Please do not make outrageous claims like this. It shows you to be ignorant of the game.
  
  
• at least it has cool pictures ........
  By ASENGHQ3SNBQ0 on 2008-06-08
  do you remember when they redid star wars and made it she square book? Have you noticed how many more books they have made for star wars? I rembmer reading star wars and saying to myself "at least D&D isn't like this"
  
  Well that's mud in my eye.
  
  Beyond some of the smaller things like elves are no longer the elves we knew(they no longer have +2 int they are the basic wood elves), I have a basic problem with the new mechanics of the game.
  
  Skills have been nerfed there's now a whopping 17 skills! your cross class skills go up at 1/2 your level, your class skills you get to add 5 to that number. Int doesn't add skills anymore even.
  
  The idea of being able to pull different spells from different books and make up a unique character is a thing of the past. There's a very limited nhumber of spells that you can take per level. However they did add ritual magic that consists of more or less then fifteen pages with pictures.
  
  And I can't even return the books =(
  
  
• Like Discovering D&D all Over Again
  By A10TA43XPOJISK on 2008-06-11
  I played AD&D continuously from 1981/2 through the Second Edition into the early 1990s. Since that time my D&D exposure has been through computer games, where the increasingly exploitable 3 and 3.5 systems seemed to make a tabletop game a complete horror to try and DM.
  
  Fourth edition D&D appears to have fixed that. What some negative reviewers fail to understand is that the simple, coherent rule system it provides doesn't impede creativity--in the hands of a good GM these simple rules allow for more creativity! In fact, the increasingly chaotic set of multi/prestige class/feat combinations in 3.0/3.5 are the true enemey of creativity, leading to an obnoxious situation where players are gaming out "builds" rather than playing a character in an RPG.
  
  Fourth edition is great because it gets away from all that. Put together a basic character how you want and role-play how heor she is different.
  
  I just hope that future additions don't bring back the obnoxious prestige classes and multi-classing nightmare of the third edition.
  
  
• Fascinating Update
  By AJL6HX8O2QLVO on 2008-06-12
  After the wild disparity of comments about 4th edition, both here and elsewhere on the net, it's probably difficult for a prospective buyer to figure out which opinions he should heed. Here are my observations, for what it's worth:
  
  1) The books are well produced and good looking. The layout is friendly to the eye, and the slip cover will help the longevity of the product.
  
  2) The system is cohesive and even-handed at last. There's just one task resolution system, and it works for spells, sword slashes, daring feints, and divine prayers. A player who's been playing a fighter can easily understand how the wizard works if he rolls up a new character. Powers, be they martial, arcane, or divine, all work in the same manner. In addition, since the heuristic for going up in level is now shared between all classes, there are no big surprises when you try a new class. Finally, by giving characters a set number of hit points at each level, there are no massive disparities between those who "rolled well" and those who didn't.
  
  3) No one has to stand around. Since there are powers that are at-will, per-encounter, and per-day for all character classes, there's always some spell, prayer, or maneuver that a character can try. No more stopping to rest after a single encounter, just because the wizard's all out of spells and can't get them back until the next day.
  
  4) Characters start out cool. Even at first level, your character is a stud, able to pull off heroic moves in combat. Extended adventures are well within the reach of a first level group. With the advent of healing surges, players can recuperate, even if there's no cleric in the party.
  
  5) Combat stays fast. Even at high levels, since 4e does away with the iterative, multiple attack sequence, the combat rounds should remain managable.
  
  6) Manageable choices. At high levels in 3.x D&D, characters could become absurdly complex. In addition, some of their lesser powers became useless, since they were not sufficiently impressive to make a difference in a level-appropriate encounter. With the advent of swapping out powers and feats, 4e allows characters to change, to adapt themselves to their new challenges. They won't be saddled with useless feats or powers forever. Also, since the number of possible powers to bring to bear is much less, the player doesn't have to muddle through book after book trying to figure out what to memorize. In fact, most classes don't need to make these choices at all, since their powers are ready to go at whatever frequency is indicated in the description.
  
  7) Race matters. Yes, a Tiefling fighter will be different from a Dwarf fighter. Every race has special powers and exploits that will have a strong effect on what feats they use and their "flavor" in combat.
  
  8) The monsters just work. The layout and methodology used to create monsters is a quantum leap forward. Every encounter can be challenging, tactical, and full of neat tricks on both sides. This can be done without brain-bursting labor on the DM's part. Prepare for fights to take a few more rounds, but for each round to pass more quickly, since the combat sequence is more elegant. Minions, especially, are a great addition, since they allow for dangerous but glass-jawed adversaries to rush the characters in the first wave.
  
  9) Cooperation pays. Because of the way the character classes are designed, the party gains huge benefits from working together. When, for instance, a rogue and a warlord work in concert, they can push an opponent into flanking position or into a dangerous area where a clever wizard can blast them with a spell. Paladins are rewarded for being in the thick of the action and challenging a tough opponent to fight them. The elegant way the class synergies work really makes even thorny players see the advantage in working together.
  
  10) Yes, there are concerns. Not all the "classic" races or classes appear in this book. It's really not possible to directly upgrade your 3.x character, expecially if you've taken prestige classes or are heavily multi-classed. Yes, the cosmology has been altered, and some of the old creatures have been changed radically. Yes, there are some elements that seem as if they've been adapted from online games. If you fear change, these can all be thought of as negatives. I choose to see them as great opportunities, just as 3.x gave us a world of opportuinties after 2nd edition.
  
  11) Some have already said that 4e is too "generic", and that there are too few options for building a character. I have to disagree. You have so many granular elements by which to create a unique character. With each class, there are a number of choices for powers. Your choice of these powers will dictate the tactical decisions you make. Then there's race, which has been given far more weight in this edition. Each feat choice emphasizes one element of your character, as well. Among the feat choices, there are "multiclass" feats, which give your character just a hint of power from another class. As you progress, there are Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies with which to concern yourself. Again, these further define your character. When I remember the days of 2nd edition, when fighters were fighters and orcs were scared, it's a pretty huge leap forward. Remember, too, that there will be more options, more classes, more races, more feats as the game begins to mature. It's impossible to cram dozens of books into one, no matter how good your game designers are.
  
  12) A few will say that, with all this talk of combat mechanics, this edition has to be for munchkins and power gamers alone. They will point to the fact that there are even codified rules for non-combat challenges. Roleplaying is discussed in the first chapter of the new Player's. If you want to have a fifty page backstory for your character, and know what his third cousin's middle name is, great. That's still possible. All of the roleplaying realms of inquiry are still on the table. In point of fact, roleplaying isn't tied to the game system at all. It's merely the place where creative players and a fine DM converge. You can't adjudicate roleplaying. You can't codify it. You can only suggest it. I submit that a system that doesn't boggle the players and send them into a fury of rule-playing somewhere in a text will naturally lead to better roleplaying.
  
  13) Finally, there's the feeling that this new edition comes too soon on the heels of 3.5. The product cycle has been vastly sped up since the 1st and 2nd edition days, and there's no getting around it. If you look at the number of releases, though, this was bound to happen. If Wizards releases a hardback book every month, that'll quickly burn through the "low hanging fruit" in gaming terms. I think that most reasonable people would agree that 3.x had more than enough spells, feats, prestige classes, game worlds, and so on. In order to move away from well-trodden ground, companies had to come up with more and more esoteric material, most of which would not be that exciting to the average gamer. In a business sense, it's clear that there had to be a new version of D&D. As a consumer, it's your choice as to if you'll pursue it. I advise that you do. Remember, all the ideas from the older products can be used or adapted to a new game system. If you want to run "Against the Giants" from 1st edition, adapting it to 4e would not be a herculean task. Don't be afraid of change. Try it out while it's still on sale.
  
  
• Goodbye Roleplaying- Hello WOW Light
  By A3FGBGCIWZ88AW on 2008-06-14
  I had high hopes for a new edition of D&D, but rather than creating a new platform for roleplaying, 4th edition is staking out a very particular piece of ground- High fantasy that plays like WOW. 4th edition is nothing more than a tabletop combat game. I suppose roleplaying has become Passe'.
  
  On the plus side, they've eliminated (as near as I can see so far) most of the negative penalties in the game. For instance, rather than have a -4 to use a skill untrained, all skills are set to a base 0, and getting formal training in a skill puts it at +5 (which exactly balances out the difference between a -4 penalty and having one rank).
  
  They've also reduced the skill list drastically. In some ways a good thing, and in other ways not. You can no longer have a Rogue who is good at pickpocketing, but never learned about traps. Anyone with the skill has an equal talent in all areas. And all the flavoring/roleplaying skills are dumped completely (playing an instrument, engineering, and so forth).
  
  I actually do like the concept of making wizard able to crack off elemental type magic quickly in combat, but made all other magic rituals. The concept mind you, in practice it is vastly overpowered. Casting all day long? No problem. You'll NEVER get tired. Forget trying to play in a setting that feels like a real world- now ALL worlds are WOW, just without the graphics and sound effects.
  
  Thanks to the up-powering of the wizards, all of the other character classes seem beefed up to match. For instance, Paladins are much flashier in 4th edition. Just about everything they do has a magical glow to it, and they're much more effective healers right out of the box than in 3.5.
  
  Combat is streamlined, another good concept. But then they go and ruin it by giving EVERYONE special attacks that slow things down again. There are no simple strikes for damage, every strike has it's attendant special effects.
  
  Overall, from what I've seen thus far, the game is far more attuned to combat than more rounded, roleplaying characters, and is embedded in a VERY high magic setting. If you want this game to expand your roleplaying, buy something else.
  
  I would have thought after all these years, D&D would have grown as a game and become a better and more useful platform for roleplaying. Maybe streamline all of those unnecessarily complicated rules and create something elegant and useful. How wrong I was.
  
  
• D&D 4th Edition = FAIL
  By ADORV9ANYTPAC on 2008-06-10
  I was really disappointed with the 4th edition. D&D 4th edition (dnd4) is the Microsoft Vista of the Role Playing Game world. I have been playing D&D and bought D&D products for close to 30 years. When they went from 2nd edition to 3rd edition. I thought that Wizards of The Coast (WoTC) did a great job in fixing a many of the problems in the game mechanics. You immediately felt like it was well thought out an well balanced. It didn't take very much to convert to and come to love the new version. They did a great job of capturing the feel of the game but with a modified rule set. As soon as I got it, I couldn't wait to use them. 3.5 was he best thing that ever happened to D&D.
  
  I was excited for the 4.0 version because I expected them to continue to improve on the mechanics and streamline to the systems, especially those for combat and magic. The jump from 3.5 to 4.0 instead resulted in major foundational changes to the game. In this case, not just the rules but the actual feel of the game as well. No doubt 3.5 had some good features which needed improvement (two-weapon fighting, sorcerer class, etc.) but the basic system worked well and stayed true to the original. I compare dnd4 to Microsoft Vista because like vista it seems more cumbersome and complex than the original. Like Vista, dnd4 makes you want the publisher to pull it from the shelves and go back and work on it for another year or two before releasing it again.
  
  I agree some other reviews that I've read which compare the new system to that of a Massively-Multiplayer Online (MMO) video game. I like playing MMOs. When I play an MMO, my focus is more on the mechanics and less on roleplaying. When I want to play an RPG, I'm far more interested in the interactions than the mechanics. In some cases it seems like they changed things for just for the sake of changing them. I think WoTC's intention was to try to appeal to a younger audience. One that grew up playing MMOs. The danger in this, is that you run the risk of alienating your core audience. Which is what I'm afraid WoTC may have done.
  
  There were a number of systems that worked very well in 3.5 that went out with the bathwater. The new systems seems overly complicated rather than simplified. One of my favorite parts about the 3/3.5 systems was the increased flexibility in customizing your character. 4.0 seems to reduce your options while increasing the complexity. I think that the new races and classes should have been saved for particular campaign settings or supplements (e.g. artificer and warforged in Eberron). They also neeed to consider backwards compatibility. Even if I wanted to move my campaign to dnd4 what am I supposed to do with the gnomish sorcerers? (Both gnomes and sorcerers were removed from the game) There does seem to be some good ideas like ritual magic but I think this should have been a modification to the existing system rather than a complete rebuild. The treasure system is better but limited in choices. I also like the idea of quest rewards.
  
  Unlike 3.0/3.5, I'm in no rush to start using the new version or replacing any more of my extensive collection of expensive 3.0/3.5 manuals. I expect to be playing 3.5 for a long time to come. Now I'm looking forward to D&D 5th edition when they can fix all the things they screwed up in the 4th edition.
  
  
• I concur
  By ARC46HO9JXD5I on 2008-06-14
  I have to say, I have heard many complaints about this new system and having read it I can agree on many points:
  1 - Too Easy. I agree, having max hit points as default on your first hit die makes surviving level 1 far too easy, you should have to roll every level up to 9th (giving you a chance of 1hp at level 1), then get fixed hp after that. And what's with this -10 on death's door rule? Heroes are supposed to die at 0, to keep the drama and seriousness of the game intact. After all, how is it believable to have someone collapse and nearly die but recover? Death's door should have been an optional rule.
  
  2 - Too powerful. Absolutely, especially with this new damage reduction system. What? It should require at least a certain level of enchantment on a weapon to even hit a Tanar'ri, but now someone without the proper level of weapon actually has a chance of hurting them! And the multiple attacks, goes right from 1 to 2 attacks, and up to what... 4?! Where did 3/2 go?
  
  3 - Too Simple. Definitely too simple a system, they replaced THAC0 with some kind of attack bonus, and now the higher your attack the better. No no no... THAC0 is supposed to be there as a nearly indecipherable task to weed out new players and stupid people. Really, do we want anyone but the math geeks playing our game? Oh, and they also condensed down saving throws and once again they made higher better. Now there's no difference between saving against a fireball from a staff and the fire from a dragon's breath weapon. No idea why they did this.
  
  4 - Classes too similar. Oh man, way too similar. Everyone has an attack bonus now, and gets multiple attacks. What?! The warrior classes are supposed to be better at fighting here people, why does the thief (now called rogue of all things, way to kill the tone and style of the game guys) get multiple attacks at almost the same rate as the fighter? Having more attacks and access to weapon bonus from added proficiencies is what make the fighter special, now everyone can do it. Oh! And they got rid of non-weapon proficiency tables, and replaced them with a bad skill system. It might cost a bit more, but a character can have skills not from their list, and advance them every level instead of by +1 each time they invest another non-weapon proficiency in it (which fighters should be getting 1 of every 5 levels mind you).
  
  5 - Trying to be a video game. I can see it, seriously. Before you know it, they'll probably be making games based on this new version too. And the ability to have ranks in whatever skill you want, or be proficient in more than 2-5 weapons starting? Definitely a video game idea. I like my D&D classic style thank you, and less of this new video game feel. AD&D 2e Forever!
  
  Wait... what? We're talking about 4th edition arriving after 3rd? Oh, my mistake. Sorry, just I had really bad deja vu from hearing a lot of the complaints out there. Forgot it wasn't 2000, and we weren't complaining about the change from AD&D to 3rd Edition. After all, I've heard most of this before.
  
  4e? Oh yeah, 4e is great. ^_^
  (apologies to anyone who took this seriously, just trying to be funny in a review about a game intended to sit down and have fun with)
  
  
• I really want to like these books
  By A3II49RH52IAHI on 2008-06-10
  Pros:
  The new rules are interesting, moving further away from 2nd edition style mechanics and more towards World of Warcraft. There are many positive changes that I think make these books worth reading. The new class mechanics are interesting, the new combat system seems simplified and streamlined, and the loot system looks more fair. In addition, they have made character advancement more tangible and rewarding and they have added a quest system which makes it easier to design scenarios that aren't as heavy on hack 'n slash.
  
  Cons:
  Physically, the binding is poor and the books do not close without significant pressure, which could be an artifact of shipping. As far as content, much is left to be desired. It seems that most of the flavor has been drained out of the books leaving for a very dry read. The page layout and design is horribly bland and they are the most visually underwhelming role playing books I have ever read. The Monsters Manual, which while is a cornucopia of statistics, fails to in most cases adequately describe monsters, giving most only a few (1-4) terse sentences.
  
  On The Balance:
  If you want to try the new rules, buy the set.
  If you don't care too much for the flavor or setting, buy the set.
  If you think that Wizards couldn't possibly cram more tables into a single book and you want to be disillusioned, buy the set.
  If you want to transition from a World of Warcraft like MMO to table top gaming, buy the set.
  
  If this is your introduction to D&D I would recommend starting with 3.5 or perhaps waiting until more content is produced for version 4.
  
  I worry about the subscription service being the driving force behind D&D in the future, and the distinct possibility that the reason that these books are so perfunctory is because they are simply a framework for that subscription service.
  
  
• A crime against Nature
  By A3A0M3FBYGFF1P on 2008-06-17
  As someone who has been playing DnD since the basic edition in 1981, I can wholeheartedly say "Avoid this product like the plague that it is." The only bright spot about Gary Gygaxx's recent passing is that now he can truly roll over in his grave at the travesty that is called 4th Edition Dungeons and Dragons.
  
  The entire system is designed around miniatures/online gaming. The focus seems to be on making everyone the same. There is really no difference between classes, just different powers. Fighters are only a class that uses swords with the same attack bonus as everyone else. Character development is urged to use preset stats or a point system (dice rolling is listed as the 3rd, less desirable option) to create a more balanced (i.e. homogeneous) character because pure dice rolling can result in characters that are either to weak or too powerful (i.e. total stat bonuses outside of +4 to +8.) Everyone only gets the same number of attacks. You can use "action points" to increase your ability to do things in combat . There are only 5 (if I remember correctly) alignments. It takes place in yet another world with gods pulled form everywhere. The spells have been completely jumbled; e.g. Fireball is still 3rd level, but Fly is now 11th (or 19th, I can't remember.) There are no minuses to anything except ranged attacks. Hit points are fixed at ~ HD average rounded up. Everyone has "powers" that work at will, per encounter or per day, even fighters; the feats are just additional powers you can choose. The advancement system has been changed so that you get something at every level. The tables now go up to 30th lvl, but it feels more like 20th in 3rd ed. There is an added currency - Astral Diamonds (AD) 1 AD = 100 PP; added to deal with really large amounts of money. Damage set up as 1 [Weapon] + modifier, which goes up to 2W+Mod at 11, and 3W+Mod at 21; regardless of character. Auto crits on a 20 (only), which can be improved to a 19 at 21st lvl. Many "powers" provide 1/2 damage even if you miss, including fighter attacks. Selling of magic items is a strict 20%. Those are all I the differences that I can recall for the moment.
  
  It feels like a very "Politically Correct", lets make everyone happy so they all feel equal and nobody gets left behind commie bu11crap. People who really like this probably feel that life is fair, and don't understand the real world. Plus several of the companies who developed products for 3rd ed have refused to support 4th ed. This is really just a new marketing tool to take money and support their even crappier online pos software tools that aren't even available for the world wide roll-out they are supposed to support.
  
  Never, ever support this tripe or recommend it to anyone you know it you consider them a friend.
  
  
  
• D&D for Dummies
  By ACYM0C7KL2MO3 on 2008-06-17
  This edition of Dungeons and Dragons has been "simplified" to where it's basically nothing more than a slightly expanded version of the D&D Miniatures game.
  
  The new rules are focused ONLY on running boardgame-style combat with miniature figures. After running three of four test sessions my players became VERY bored and insisted on going back and playing "real D&D."
  
  If you want to play this kind of tabletop miniatures combat, you'd be better of just getting the D&D miniatures game. Or the game "Heroscape."
  
  But if you REALLY want to play 4E, I suggest that you wait a month or two. The books will cost a lot less when they're on clearance.
  
  
• End Of An Era
  By ABIFFUU4M6T39 on 2008-06-17
  So, here we are a little over five years after the 3.5 version of D&D and Wizards of the Coast has launched the 4th Edition. Drastic changes abound within these pages. Some are good, some bad, some necessary, and some trivial.
  
  Physically, the package is very nice. The slipcase for the three books is sturdy and aesthetically pleasing. The books themselves are hardbound, well stitched, and printed on heavy stock. The cover art has returned to pre-3rd Ed style and features artwork rather than faux embellishments to make the book appear like a mystic artifact. The interior art features mostly new illustrations with a few recycled pieces from the previous books. The layout is clear and easy to follow. The lack of a glossary is troubling for new players, but not a dealbreaker.
  
  The actual rules system has gotten a drastic overhaul. Although the basic d20 system is still in use, just about everything else in D&D has changed. Combat now revolves around "At-Will", "Encounter", and "Once Per Day" powers that are given to every class. Combat spells are not memorized daily and do not operate on a different resolution system. They can be fired off without using up a "slot" as in the old method, and they can also miss their target since they are aimed like any other attack. Hit points regenerate overnight to fully healed status.
  
  Multi-classing is essentially out. (You can take powers from other classes, but you'll never be able to fully have all their abilities.) Gnomes are gone except as monsters. Bards are gone. Sorcerors and Monks are also gone. Frost giants and metallic dragons aren't found in the Monster Manual. Tieflings, Dragonborn, and Eladrin are now core races. Alignments have been streamlined. Character levels go to 30 in the core game. Skills are simplified. The list of changes goes on and on...
  
  Is it good, or is it bad? That depends, really. If you're a number-crunching powergamer, then this game will not be for you. If you relish the thought of building a 12th Level Fighter with 7 FTR, 3 RGR, 1 ROG, 1 SOR in it's makeup, then 4th Edition is going to make you cry. If you want to play a game that in combat encounters mimics a computer MMO played on a tabletop, or if you just want a RPG that offers quick and easy gaming, then 4th Edition may be up your alley.
  
  Wizards obviously made the changes in response to the kinds of gaming standards set by computer games. As a business, they've had to adapt. As a RPG hobby, they've all but died.
  
  Although I understand their business needs, it saddens me that they've decided to drop roleplaying for the kind of gaming found in modern MMO games. It would seem obvious to me that one audience is not necessarily the same as the other, but the die has been cast.
  
  
• For the people who haven't played it....play it first before bashing it
  By A1T8N18XKDLJO4 on 2008-06-15
  Let me start off by saying i was one of those out there that was against D&D 4th edition from the get go. I had just gotten the 3.5 books for my birthday last year (I put off getting them because i was waiting on 4th but wizards said 4th would not come for another 2+years) and they announced 4th edition like a month later. So I was upset. Well throughout the year since the announcement my views on 4th edition have varied at times from hatred, skepticism to excitement. I didn't actually plan on liking it. Bards, Monks, druids, barbarians, and sorcerers are gone. Gnomes and half-orcs are also gone. I didn't like the nerfing of the wizard and the other spellcasters and i sure didn't like the fluff that they were shoving down our throats. I didn't like the alignment changes and i hated the way utility spells were said to work now and don't even get me started on rituals. I hated the tiefling and the dragonborn. Eladrin were high elves and stupid because they already had elves. Well i preordered the books in March just to check it out especially after reading reviews by skeptics online that hated it then played it and thoroughly enjoyed it. Well i got my books last week and ran my first 4th edition campaign tonight with all skeptics. Lets just say at the beginning the game sounded like the following : "This is stupid" "I can't believe they changed that" "dumb let's play 3.5!" By the end of the session it sounded like this: "Man this is cool" "This power is sweet" "Even the Kobolds are cool to fight against in this!" I ran a total of 3 fighting encounters which got faster with each successive one as we learned the rules. Just gotta say the battle encounters are AWESOME! They are fun to run as a dm and they are fun and challenging for the players. The powers offer tactical choices rather than just "I hit them with my sword" or in the wizards case "I just used my only level 1 spell hmmmm i guess Ill try to stay out of combat." So in other words we all turned from skeptics to believers in one game session. The in town encounters were every bit as good as 3.5 role playing encounters. These really depend entirely on how good the dm is at playing the various npcs and creating the towns, but they were just as fun in 4th as they were in 3.5. Some people have complained on the "hack and slash" method of roleplaying that 4th is said to entail but that is far from what i found here. While the rules are combat heavy they leave it to the dm to do the roleplaying stuff which is actually what i did in every edition of D&D anyway. There are skill challenges but i haven't ran one of those as of yet and look forward to trying it out later.
  
  As far as the books themselves are concerned. All of them have great artwork and all of them are extremely useful. Some people have complained about the DM's guide but it's pretty much what you would expect from a dm's guide. Its got advice for dms as well as rules for awarding exp and treasure. It has a chapter on traps and hazards and it also has a town fully fleshed out and a short adventure in the back. The monster manual is not as bare boned as I was lead to believe. It has enough fluff on each monster and has different versions of each monster on each entry. This is extremely useful for setting up encounters and as far as the player's handbook is concerned the biggest problem is the layout. It seems hard to find anything in it and the shear amount of options to choose between while creating a character can be daunting at first. One other flaw is with the monster manual and it's extra races in the back that can be used as pc races...there are no rules on them as some have powers more powerful than normal pc races and there are no racial feats for them as they aren't fully fleshed out as pc races. You can still technically use them but i was lead to believe that they would be every bit as fleshed out as the player's handbook races. Oh well they are still usable with a little tweaking.
  
  I was a skeptic and i still wish they could have made room for at least a few more classes. Most people bashing this set haven't even attempted to play the game yet and bash it because it is different that 1st,2nd or 3rd. It is different but all of my players loved it. They think it is a refreshing change. The game was a success and even as we played my skepticism disappeared as did theirs. In short play it before you blast it guys. Then if you hate it you can blast it for all the things you hate. Trust me, if you keep an open mind you will like it. I didn't see the need for a change in systems and I still don't. I'll still run my 3.5 games for awhile but I'm definitely bringing 4th edition into the fray now and I'm going to continue having fun with it despite the haters. This set is a must have for anyone wanting to play the newest edition of D&D. That being said, how does it stack up against 3.5? It's a totally different system and as such each system offers a different but similar experience. As far as I'm concerned they are both fun, but 4th edition is a refreshing change of pace (especially on how combat works). I recommend giving it a try if your players are willing.
  
  
• Product 5 star, Amazon, 0 stars
  By A1SUHFMBX1QHW on 2008-06-11
  I'd preordered this almost a month ago and they delayed me until July 14, of all the stupidity. So, I've gone with another seller - Comics-Now - but had to pay for shipping. Overall, I'm really angry with Amazon over this. How could they accept preorders and then not have enough to ship to everyone, while meantime stores have them on their shelves just fine? Amazon, you fail.
  
  
• Really S H I T T Y new D&D edition.
  By A2TFO6NRTC7KAS on 2008-06-17
  O.K. Ihave gone through the new 4th ed core rule books and I must say that I'm scared. Not just scared, but personally sick. I learned the game on 2nd edition and converted to 3rd when that came out to great success. 3.5 was the apex of creativity for PCs and DMs. This 4th edition is just plain horrible. Why did WotC have to do this? I suspect it was all an effort to draw the mallcore baby 15 year old MMO crowd in to D&D, since pen and paper (i.e "real") RPGs have taken a "critical hit" with the arrival of WoW. Many reviews I've read here are right, this almost is like a table top verison of WoW, focused on hack and slash/ collect the loot mechanics rather then roleplaying and character development. It has been seriously "dumbed-down" to grab newbies. Yes, 3.x did take work to learn, however the challenge and rule complexity made it a vastly more interesting game. Gone are any grasp towards immersing yourself in a living, breathing world, rather its now just a table top battle game ala Hero Click or Stratego. Are people really just getting dumber? No longer can you have a personalized/standout character with specialties, 4th makes us play cardboard cut-out archtype mega clishes, due to the dumping of multiclassing and the ability for anyone to simple "borrow" other class abilities with no general basis in logic. A fighter that can cast spells in armor....OH Kaaaaay, no general risk takinig either since all my wounds heal at the end of the day.Theclasses have also been cut down and the generic races have been replaced with world specific ones like the Dragonboen and Tiefling, making it harder to incorporate into games worlds that you create, rather WotC wants you to buy their campaing sets. The skill system totally thrown out the window, much less useful and streamlined to eat up less "battle time". This is totally not the D&D I grew up with and had so many fun times with. Why WotC Why?
  
  
  
  Stick with the 3.x rulebooks, that is real D&D not this tripe.
  
  
  
• 4th Edition - the best RPG I've played
  By AJIKFTAX7L59Q on 2008-06-22
  Dungeons and Dragons has been a staple in my nerd pedigree since I was 16 years old. I've played on and off since high school, playing D&D 2nd edition and D&D 3.5. For most of this time I was the dungeon master of the game, putting together adventures, customizing monsters and encounters, and building the story through which the players would all play.
  
  About a year ago I got quite frustrated with D&D 3.5. Our gaming group, a group of adult friends who gathered monthly to play for about four or five hours, had reached level 13. Most of the players ran more than one character, sometimes because another member of the group left and sometimes to fill a role the party missed. During these games every battle took nearly two hours. It got so bad that I had to tune adventures around four, three, and sometimes as few as two combat encounters per adventure simply to ensure we'd leave at a normal time. Modules like "City of the Spider Queen" had to be completely re-written to let our group have any chance at finishing it.
  
  At Gencon 2007, Wizards of the Coast announced Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition and, a year later, I now have the 4th edition Players Handbook, Monster Manual, and Dungeon Master's Guide sitting on my desk.
  
  D&D 4th edition solved many of the problems I have with 3.5. Combat is fast, characters are streamlined but still powerful, I'm able to write and run the adventures I want, and everyone at the table is having a great time.
  
  Dungeons and Dragons 4th edition is the best tabletop RPG I have ever played.
  
  What makes 4th Edition Great
  
  There's a lot of great stuff in 4th edition but a few of these stand out as the clear advantages of the system.
  
  First, the rules are simplified and more consistent. For example, attacks against enemies always mean rolling a d20 and adding your modifier. It doesn't matter if you're hitting with a sword or firing a fireball. You always roll attack rolls. This is a big switch from 3.5 where spells required defenders to roll saving throws while fighters rolled attacks against static defender ACs. The four defenses in 4th edition; AC, fortitude, reflex, and will; make sense and feel natural.
  
  Second, all character classes are fun to play. The cleric in 4th edition sure isn't your daddy's cleric. Though healing is still a large part of a cleric's job, the cleric can drop a lot of damage and boost a party's effectiveness quite a bit. This is the first D&D cleric that is genuinely fun to play.
  
  Third, class powers rock. I remember when I first saw feats in D&D 3.5 how I saw them as the evolution of skills. Feats were skills that actually meant something in combat. Now combat powers take that up a step further. Character powers are the true strength in your character. They are the abilities you will use the most often in any given combat. They are the cinematic action-packed moves that impress the rest of the players and make you feel like a real hero instead of a farmer with a sword.
  
  Fourth, character power and monster power is very well balanced. The power curves in D&D is much smoother from level 1 to 30 than it was from 1 to 20 in 3.5. One of the brilliant changes in D&D 4th edition is the monster power levels. Instead of simply having a monster level that compares to a character level, monsters can come in four different types: minions, standard guys, elite guys, and solo guys. Minions may be as powerful statistically as a player at any level but any single successful attack kills them in a single blow. This way a level 23 party may get attacked by twenty level 20 abyssal ghouls but any single hit on any of them will drop them dead. Normal guys are the typical monsters we're used to. Elite guys are powerful versions of normal guys but count as two, have twice the hit points, and often have some sort of secondary attacks. Solo guys, like dragons and beholders, can fight off an entire party by themselves. Again, these can be at any level, so a level 3 solo white dragon still counts as a single solo creatures as does a level 30 solo ancient red dragon. As a DM, these make it a lot easier to build powerful boss creatures surrounded by threatening fodder like a good John Woo movie.
  
  Fourth, and most importantly, 4th edition is simply more fun to play. Players focus on their powers instead of digging into the minutia of the rules. Fighters have a whole pile of actions to perform while wizards are much more streamlined and focused instead of choosing from hundreds of possible options while the rest of the players look bored.
  
  The Problems of 4E
  
  D&D 4th edition isn't perfect. For one, since every attack requires an attack roll, players will miss a lot more often than they used to in 3.5. Wizards always had the option to cast a magic missile and do a little damage. Now magic missiles can miss, something unheard of for the last 30 years. When your turn may not come around for ten minutes or so, it's pretty lame to miss your roll and have to wait another ten minutes.
  
  Second, 4th edition is really built around miniatures on a battle grid. While players can possibly play D&D with just dialog and maybe some paper diagrams, most of the rules focus on a square battle grid and miniatures. For the past two years or so I've become hopelessly addicted to D&D miniatures so this isn't a problem for me. It justifies the money I've spent.
  
  Third, character creation is still pretty complicated. Attributes, races, classes, and items all have modifiers to your baseline statistics that require quite a lot of page flipping. For example, to calculate your athletics skill check you have to know your level, your attribute modifier, your possible racial modifier, your class trained skills, and any possible armor modifier. For an experienced player this isn't so bad, and its a LOT better than the overly complicated skill system in 3.5, but it makes it difficult to quickly build characters for a one-night game. I personally can't wait for some sort of online javascript character generator that can help me quickly build PCs for a one-night game. In the mean time, I'm back to using PC-like D&D miniatures for quick games or 1 on 1 games.
  
  The Fear of Change
  
  There's a lot of criticism surrounding 4th edition. Amazon currently posts a customer rating of 3 out of 5. Many of the reviewers don't even own the books but simply attack with many various criticisms that generally come down to the following:
  
  4th Edition is too simplified and misses a lot of the stuff I had and liked in 3.5.
  I already have too much invested in 3.5 and I don't want to switch.
  4th Edition is World of Warcraft on paper.
  Nearly all of these arguments come down to a single problem; a fear of change.
  
  I don't know how many of the critics are actual Dungeon Masters and I don't know of those who are DMs how many have tried 4th edition, but after reading through and playing through a few D&D 4th edition games, as a DM I can't see ever going back. In my 3.5 games the planning was too complicated, too much time was spent at the table looking up strange rules, and combat took forever. 4th edition gets rid of all of that without losing the tactics and fun that makes a game like D&D great.
  
  I can understand those who feel like their shelf full of 3.5 books suddenly became worthless. However, looking at my own substantial collection of books, I see very few I'd actually give away. Many of them, like the Book of Vile Darkness and the two Fiendish Codices bring me nostalgia even now. Game systems change and there's no one forcing anyone to switch. Everyone knew Wizards would come out with a new version some day and frankly, I'm glad they did.
  
  The "D&D = Warcraft" straw-man argument is perplexing. First, a pen and paper game is never like a computer game. Second, WoW is pretty popular so who cares if it does steal from it. There are elements to D&D that mimic some of the rules of WoW such as the talent trees and some of the character class attributes, but combat is still very much D&D and 4th Edition definitely has its own flavor.
  
  D&D's Biggest Problem
  
  There's one large unwritten problem surrounding a game like D&D, one that has nothing to do with the rules or the cost of the books. Sometimes its just hard to find a group with which to play. I've been lucky in my life to have four of five good D&D groups that played for over a few years. I'm very lucky to have two groups now, one a weekly game that I run with my friends and another that I play in every other week. This mostly comes from the location in which I live, there are enough people around the DC area to find a few different groups of folks. For folks living out in the sticks, however, finding a group can be rough.
  
  Add onto this the stigma of being a D&D player, one we often enjoy together but one that gets in the way when we want to find or build a group, and many might toss D&D aside and focus on computer games instead. I know there were times in my life where I really wanted to play D&D but was too shy to really hunt down and find a good group. It takes a lot of guts to invite yourself into a group of a bunch of strangers, especially for socially awkward folks like myself who tend to gravitate towards games like this.
  
  There's no clear solution to this. The internet helps with sites like Meetup.com and various D&D boards where people meet and get together. However, as long as the game isn't mainstream, it will be hard for a lot of people to play.
  
  I can think of only one solution that may help give players the opportunity to play: adventures written for two players. Like D&D miniatures, D&D could be played by two players, one as a DM and one as a player. The player character would have to fight alone but could fight down a series of nasty bad guys and solve a simple plot. I've read enough posts to see a high demand for one-on-one adventures but so far have seen very few ever published. Like soloing in World of Warcraft, one-on-one D&D adventures have a better opportunity to bring D&D to more people. I hope to see this expand in the future.
  
  Until better solutions can be found, D&D will always be a hobbyist game played by a few folks in dark basements scattered across the country.
  
  4th Edition, My New Favorite Game
  
  As a DM, 4th edition is a dream. It gives me all the tools to build an exciting adventure that feels like an excellent action movie without worrying about power balance. Combat is fast and fun, with lots of options for both the players and the DMs. The rules are easy enough for veteran players to jump right in with mostly logical conclusions to the questions that come up during gameplay.
  
  As a player, D&D 4th edition makes every class fun, gives enough options and customization to build the sort of character one wants to play without so much customization as to overwhelm. Class powers are the next evolution in character action providing the action-packed actions we'd expect in a good book or movie.
  
  Dungeons and Dragons 4th Edition is the best tabletop RPG I've ever played.
  
  
• Back from future
  By A1V381Z5BKSNEC on 2008-06-17
  The D&D4 gift box is a really nice set (nice paper, great artwork...) but the problem is that this new edition is not good.
  The problem is that it turns D&D to a miniature game, less personalization options as you have fewer class (exit the Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Monk... and all the achievements of D&D3.5). For sure we get some promise of a great future but nothing to come for your next saturday night!
  Skills system is now awfully poor (less skills and less ways to use them) and no "prestige class" before the 10th level.
  Monster manual is really beautiful but details and informations about each creature are dramatically reduced.
  Fewer magic items are presented and the "magic recipe" for their creation suppressed.
  D&D4 is a step back, they tried to put a video game system on paper, it's not a start for imagination and gameplay but a limitation to it.
  
  If you like(d) D&D3.5 skip this fourth edition!!!
  
  
• A Review from Someone Who Actually Played It
  By A1C2W1AS1C1LPA on 2008-06-12
  First, I want to rebuke the most common complaints from people who read the books (but apparently didn't play the game).
  
  1) People say this is the death of role-playing, and the system is totally focused on combat. COMPLETELY UN-TRUE. First off, I am a self-taught 3rd edition player, and I can tell you from experience, 3rd edition has NOTHING on role-playing in any of the books. There is only HALF A PAGE dedicated to role-playing in the 3rd edition PHB. The 4th edition books actually have section on role-playing and personality development. I would also like to remind opponents of 4th edition that the amount of role-playing in a game comes from the DMs expectations, not the game mechanics. All the game mechanics (as in dice rolling) are geared towards combat (in 3rd and 4th edition). You don't need numbers to role-play. No matter how your character is statistically quantified, role-playing is still up to the person playing, not the character sheet in front of them.
  
  2) The complaint that 4th edition is only combat oriented is another fallacy. The combat system in 4th edition has been streamlined and simplified. I ran an encounter, and it ran so much smoother then 3rd edition. And I ask, what are the hall-marks of the heavy role-playing RPGs like white wolf? Simplified character creation and combat (like 4th edition). I also ask, What are the hall-marks or a war games? A slow and overly complicated combat system (like 3rd edition).
  
  3) The third complaint that I hate is that Wizards of the Coast is trying to market to the "world of warcraft" crowd. OF COURSE THEY ARE! It took WoW a year and a half to get an audience comparable to what it took D&D 30 years to get. By the way, about 9 out of 10 people I play WoW with, I also play D&D with.
  
  So lets recap: Opponents of 4th edition say that by making combat simpler, you are somehow focusing the entire game on it. And that by including sections about role-playing (which 3rd edition was sorely lacking) you are some how discouraging role-playing.
  
  Getting to the game I ran. I ran a 4th edition encounter with three 3rd edition veterans and a new comer to D&D. My three veterans loved it, and I found it so much easier to prepare a game. But the novice, who never liked 3rd edition, really enjoyed 4th edition. So soon I will be starting up a new 4th edition campaign.
  
  Remember, actual role-playing has nothing to do with technical rules used in combat, no matter what system of dice rolling you use, role-playing isn't effected by that.
  
  Simply said, 4th edition is new, innovative, and a better game. It isn't "dumbed down for stupid WoW players." Who the hell ever put points in "use rope" anyway?
  
  
• Caveat: wait for the mandatory revision!
  By A2PWX1Q3UAG7LZ on 2008-06-14
  A lot of reviewers have focused on more of the innocuous information not contained in the books, e.g., druids, gnomes, etc. This information is less important because there will be books published in the future containing these races, classes, etc. Also, shelling out $20 or more for a book shouldn't be reproached when one compares the prices to the cost of a movie. However, shelling out any money for a broken system that will either be repaired dramatically in the following year, or remain broken seems like a waste to me. I promise you, nothing in the Monsters Compendium will stand a round against the builds that one might even accidentally create from the PHB. It used to be dangerous to be an adventurer, now it's a walk in the park. To be more specific, there are many builds that could solo even the most powerful monsters. If you do buy the book, request that your DM multiply the monsters' HP by 10; that should eliminate the one round kills for the most obvious builds. If you want examples, consult the official forums for the 4.0 system. You'll find many of them there.
  
  
• Welcome to Mediocrity
  By AWTF8E8S1MKCT on 2008-06-16
  I've played it and have had multiple characters.
  
  You will find in this game that there is less immersion as you have to suspend any realism, even in a fantasy game.
  
  Creating anything in game other than magic items? Forget it, because there are no rules for interacting within the game economy. Hiring laborers, courtesians, pages, squires, errand boys, scribes, its all out. No you cannot create a castle, no you cannot sculpt a work of art, no you cannot feel like a hero.
  
  I have an extremely poor impression of this game and I've been playing since 2nd edition. They dropped flavor in favor of chess. Yes, there is more balance in the system between characters, but is it worth butchering a great game?
  
  I've heard that 4th is a roleplaying game as opposed to 3.5 were players are powergamers. We just closed our books on 4th edition with our vanilla characters to build unicorns, shapeshifters, yuan-ti, wizards, and dungeon delving rogues. Play 4th edition and you will see that the fantasy is gone.
  
  When they make it into a video game, I'll play that, but when I want Pen and Paper give me 3.5.
  
  Fourth does have alot of great ideas, but its not worth a full conversion. Simply fourth edition characters are generic vanilla and every party will be the same.
  
  I'm not being negative to roleplaying styles, just the system. Fourth edition is literally like playing World of Warcraft or Dark Age of Camelot, complete with "cooldown times", but hey if that's what you like, enjoy.
  
  I just hope people stop flaming the 3.5 players, they are attacking the system not your roleplay style.
  
  
• A continued evolution of the tabletop RPG
  By A23JIDHJ82BUN2 on 2008-06-20
  I'm going to start by throwing out a few things that may tell you if D&D 4E is or is not for you:
  
  4th Edition may not be for you if:
  * You want a system with completely transparent rules that work identically for you and the bad guys
  * You love 3rd edition multiclassing rules and the ability of 3E to mix and match just about any piece
  * You dislike being required to use a map and tabletop representation
  
  You'll probably like 4th Edition if:
  * You don't like spending hours to pour over every book to create characters and find the "best" feat, spell, etc...
  * You enjoy fights and roleplaying in D&D, but don't want to have to think about it too much out an actual play session
  * You like having a clear role and purpose to play in game
  
  4th Edition (in my opinion) is a rather obvious evolution to a rather old game. The ultimate goal of 4th edition is to refocus D&D on the pieces that most people enjoyed and remove the pieces that caused the most consternation and frustration.
  
  To be fair, there is a substantial (both active and vocal) subset of the 3E D&D community that feels that the modular nature of 3E was it's greatest strength and that they are removing that in 4E. WotC ultimately decided that that group was a minority and the problems with that piece were causing some of the biggest frustration for average or casual players becoming more involved. (I'll leave it to you to decide if that was a good decision).
  
  4th Edition focuses on:
  * Making all players relatively equal in power level
  * Give everyone "stuff" to do every combat
  * Simplify combat
  * Distills most conflict (with combat or skills) into clearly deliniated encounters and leaves the in-between times to rules-minimal role-playing
  
  There are many people who you will hear telling you that 4E is broken or a step backward for a vareity of reasons. I'd challenge that many of them are inflated or incorrect.
  
  For example, many say that they shouldn't be required to play D&D on a map, and that that isn't an RPG - it's a miniature game. Those that have played through different RPGs and editions will acknowledge (if they are being honest with themselves) that in most map-less RPGs, the DM and players are frequently writing maps and positioning on a piece of paper, chalkboard, or whiteboard - or there are regular conflict where people are arguing about positioning, how close they are to a bad guy, why this guy shouldn't be able to hurt them, and so on. And sometimes those conflicts can end peoples interest in participating in this hobby.
  
  Just like an RPG has rules, because we all learned that if we just "make pretend" you get into those childhood arguments of "I shot you/No you didn't", D&D designers have come to the realization over the years that short of a map, no one is going to picture a scene in their head exactly the same way.
  
  Map's aren't a betrayal to the "true nature" of RPGs - they are a natural evolution that has been learned as time has passed.
  
  If you are someone interested in the game I'd whole-heartedly recommend buying the Players hand book and Keep on the Shadowfell and trying it out. Don't let anyone tell you why you should or shouldn't play it and instead make the (rather minimal) investment of one book and see if you have fun.
  
  I think you will.
  
  

• Keep on the Shadowfell (Dungeons & Dragons, Adventure H1)
• Dungeons & Dragons Player's Handbook: Roleplaying Game Core Rules, 4th Edition
• Dungeons & Dragons Dungeon Master's Screen
• Thunderspire Labyrinth (Dungeons & Dragons, Adventure H2)
• Dungeons & Dragons Character Record Sheets: Roleplaying Game Character Sheets, 4th Edition