Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns: The Romance and Sexual Sorcery of Sadomasochism Reviews

• Not what you may have heard.

  
  By A3EX36SNRYD5VL on 2001-11-13
  This is a good introductory guide on BDSM for heterosexual, male dominant and female submissive couples and for others who view BDSM as a form of sexual and romantic play. It is not, as some reviewers both on the book itself and elsewhere, claim the most complete BDSM guide today -- it never claims to be that either. It is simply what it claims, one couples' view of BDSM that may click well with others of a similar bent. However, the tone is a bit sarcastic at times and a bit "in scene" at other times and this may confuse very new people so I recommend other books such as the "Topping Book" and the "Bottoming Book" by Greenery Press first and if you can find a copy, Pat Califia's "Sensuous Magic" as a basic intro to the activities of SM. In 1,000 words there is little time to go into all the good and bad points about this book but I hope this can aid in deciding whether or not to buy.
  
  

• Everything that you need to know to get started

  
  By A2RL9JHYNEJ1QR on 2000-12-31
  If you are new to the scene and want to become familiar with the majority of the techniques that you may wish to try then this book is an excellent guide. To begin, it walks through the terminology, the basic mental and emotional elements in SM play, an overview of "scene" and how S&M relationships can be negotiated. Once the book has prepared you with the basic elements of how to enjoy S&M play, it moves into actual techniques: a safety overview, waxing, bondage, flogging, spanking and humiliation. It finishes with a discussion of how to build, transport and hide your dungeon "toys".

  Even if you are an experienced scene player, it is unlikely that you are conversant with every possible type of play, so this book serves as a helpful reminder of the basic techniques. While it does not cover the more extreme types of play - water sports, blood sports or mummification, it is comprehensive in it's coverage of the most standard types of play.

  Although this book is written by a hetero male dominant and a female submissive, the words of wisdom contained are applicable to everyone. I personally found that having both partner's perspective was very helpful when trying to construct my own session.

  If you are looking to get into S&M, this book is a great start to begin play at home. Miss's Abernathy's Concise Guide to Slave Training is an excellent next step. And once you are feeling confident in your private relationship, SM 101 by Jay Wiseman will give you enough credibility to feel comfortable in visiting "public" scene events.
  
  

• No contest ...best of its class

  
  By A1P9CXU198ZICX on 2000-10-10
  With 25 five star reviews another is hardly necessary. But this book is everything it should be. its funny, its informative, its approachable and its fun! Easily the best "how to" book on D/s SM ever written.

  "Screw the roses" covers most topics in SM play: bondage, spanking, humilation, flogging, types of whips, gear, contact groups, medical issues, safety issues, post-scene comforting and mental aspects. It goes into details on all of the less extreme practices. It treats the more extreme things such as breath play or cutting much more briefly, pretty much warning people off them.

  It is full of practical advice and good safety tips. These are punctuated with amusing and erotic personal anecdotes that help keep the reading fun and light. One of the things I most admire about "Roses" is that safety is practically a mantra repeated through out the book. Overall a must have book.
  
  

• Information guideline for novices

  
  By AW64X28K919PY on 2000-01-09
  I have just recently entered this alternative lifestyle and wanted more information. Rather then badger my freinds with questions, I picked up this book. I devoured it. It disspelled any fiction that I had and gave me the cold hard facts.

  Answered all questions I had, alleviate any fears and left me with nothnig but anticipation to put forth my newly acquired knowledge.

  I would recomennd this book to anyone who was also looking to delve into this lifestyle or even for the passing curiosity people.
  
  

• This book was a "classic" for BDSM right away!

  
  By on 1997-12-23
  "Screw The Roses; Send Me The Thorns" is a fantastic book from two active members of the scene. The late Philip Miller, and his submissive Molly Devon wrote this *must* have book. They are familiar with eachother and the scene, with a twist of sardonic humor yet with a sensitive manner. They approach the issues at hand in a humoristic and warm way. Never does a person feel as if they are being "talked down to."

  For those that are new/novice, to those that are senior members - this book provides a constant stream of information that is constantly updated. The book takes the basics, and gives the reader those definitions and explanations that will enable them to learn. Next, more information is then given for those that want to continue to explore. A fantastic reference book for those that are interested in gaining accurate information!

  Fantastic series of resource listings in the back of the book! [re: BBS's, Periodicals, Groups & Organizations, Leather Resources [stores], Leather Resources [support], etc.]

  
  
  

• Indispensable book
  By A2ZB3LUN5X8H1G on 2000-05-12
  The deeper I got into this book, the more often I found myself saying "YES!" in agreement with Philip and Molly's philosophies about doing SM. This, along with SM 101 by Jay Wiseman is truly a "must have" book if you're serious about wanting to learn what SM is all about.

  The book covers virtually every facet of play from descriptions of what each "type" of SM players are, looking out for the "wannabes," negotiation before playing, bondage techniques, flogging, spanking, and even humiliation.

  Illustrations and photos are sprinkled liberally throughout the text and help to make the information that much more easy to understand and follow.

  Since this book is now a few years old (I understand an update is forthcoming), the resource section is a bit outdated. Otherwise, this book is outstanding!
  
  

• Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns
  By A3HFZAMI6RQ284 on 2001-08-20
  When I was first learning about SM, I was full of the usual stereotypes and misinformation about it. IMHO, to understand and appreciate SM, it is essential for one to realize that SM turns everything on its head. 'Nothing is what it seems', so to speak. Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns does that better than any other book I've read on the subject, and it does so with abundant love. After reading a few pages of Molly Devon and Philip Miller's book, my unfounded fears about what SM was began to melt away. The book is written with so much love and playfulness that one cannot help but see and feel it. And once the fear from all those inaccurate myths is dispelled, there is room for the *delicious* fears with which safe, sane, and consensual SM abounds. And the loving playfulness is contagious! For these reasons (in addition to those discussed by other reviewers), I highly recommend this book, *especially* for all novices. It is my very favorite! Read, learn, and enjoy.....yummmmm!!
  
  
• Annoying
  By on 2001-12-12
  The reviews for this book are extensive, with most recommending this book for beginners, which I agree with. The book seems especially appropriate for people who may otherwise think SM is a bizarre and scary activity that appeals only to deviants. I think it would be an excellent way of introduction for a vanilla partner. What's good about this book-for me at least-was almost completely overshadowed by the cutesy, juvenile attempts at humor that are found thoughout the book. Perhaps it "lightens up" the subject matter, but I found these attempts at humor tedious. Also, the illustrations and B&W photography is dreadful. They look like 3rd generation copies. The illustrations of knots and bondage-among other things-are pretty much useless since they're so unclear they can't be followed. While whether one appreciates the writing style is a subjective matter, there's no excuse for poor quality illustrations and photographs in a how-to book. Unfortunately, these are major flaws in what would otherwise be a good intro. to SM. I would expect better quality for a book in this price range.
  
  
• Practical, wonderfully insightful and a kick to read
  By A1U16TRF185BFB on 2001-03-01
  "Screw the Roses..." is the answer to a thousand curiosities the uninitiated might have about the psychology of the world of SM and of its citizens. In addition to the thorough exposition on the mindset of SM people, it offers buckets of practical tips and advice for all, from beginner to experienced player/participant. The humor begins with the title and the disclaimer just inside, and extends all the way to the end, making "Screw the Roses..." probably the most amusing book available on psycho-sexuality. It is written from the authors' perspective of male dominant/female submissive, and though the rationale for doing so is presented respectfully and tastefully, it occasionally takes a bit of mental effort to apply an appropriate transposition. The pages on the basic psychology alone make this a worthy purchase; the coverage of so many other topics (tips & techniques, furnishing your dungeon/playroom, etc.) make this a book not to be missed if you have even the lightest interest or curiosity in SM.
  
  
• Thought Provoking
  By on 1999-12-04
  I have recently read serveral books on this subject. This book I found the most informative and thought provoking of all. It not only reinforces safety issues, but you might be suprised to find a little of yourself in the text. It opens some of the doors on this life style, and on yourself if you are brave enough to look with an open heart and mind.
  
  
• I ALMOST THREW THIS BOOK OUT THE WINDOW OF MY TRUCK!!
  By on 1999-09-01
  I was so shocked at the photos and drawings in this book that for a few days I actually would pull it out look, and skim through paragraphs and put it away. And I really did almost throw it away. I was shocked to even discover anyone would involve themselves in this kind of activity.

  But, I RECOMMEND THAT YOU HAVE A SEAT AND READ THIS BOOK! Though I have not become involved in this life/lovestyle as of yet, my interest is strong and I feel prepared to safely explore my curiousity obout BDSM after reading this very informative book.

  THE SAFETY ADVISE IS WHAT ALL US SHOULD DO IN ANY RELATIONSHIP WE INVOLVE OURSELVES IN! I am also very impressed with the idea of the love, caring, and trust that are a part of true BDSM. The things I am looking for in a relationship.

  SO, GO AHEAD AND BUY THIS BOOK, READ THE WORDS AND ENJOY! It is an eye opening experience, and one that will enlighten you and just maybe shake your world -- just a little. All for the good!
  
  

• Screw the Roses is a fun & practical "how-to" on BDSM
  By A2QX8S9RDTHBVV on 2002-07-09
  i don't know Mistress Prima Donna's problem is; this is a wonderful book. "Different Loving" is a valuable overview of the history and culture of the Scene, but it won't tell you how to tie someone up or what parts of the body are safe to whip, and its dry, textbook approach would put most newcomers off.

  "Screw the Roses" is warm, witty, engaging, and fun, and it's loaded with practical "how-to" information. Phillip and Molly demystify and explain BDSM with an engaging enthusiasm and droll humour that would put almost anyone at ease. Between these pages the stereotype of "S&M" as a dark and shameful activity practised by perverted weirdos is transformed into a cheerful and friendly community populated by real human beings.

  i'm on the Board of the Columbus chapter of the National Leather Association, and i often work with newcomers to the Scene. When they ask about books, i recommend this one first. There's more to learn about flogging, or bondage, or submission, or the other things we do, but "Screw the Roses" is the perfect beginner's book, with all the information (especially about safety) you need to get started, packed into a fun, unthreatening package. i can't say enough good things about this book.
  
  

• Great book
  By on 1999-12-22
  This was the first book I read about BDSM. I found it to be the most inclusive book I've read since as well. If you can't decide what book to buy, get this one. It's great for both the dominate and the submissive.
  
  
• BDSM Bible
  By A1C5BZOPBOOZ37 on 2002-12-06
  This book is wonderful for people with all levels of BDSM knowledge. It's a great way to get you and your partner on the same page as to what to expect when you play. This book offers well thought out opinions on, proper techniques, club etiquette, why we like what we do, and how to know when you're doing it correctly. Too many of us try to just "jump in" with little to no information. That's how people get physically and emotionally hurt. This book really helps people to have the best BDSM experience possible, weather it is beginning, intermediate, or advanced.. It's well written, casual and humorous too! I personally have recommended this book to hundreds of couples, and singles, with all levels of BDSM knowledge in the Washington Metro area and I know I will continue to do so for many more years to come.
  
  
• Not the National Geographic
  Not the National Geographic
  By A1273HNTG6NX28 on 2003-09-03
  When I was a kid I'd page through the National Geographic, looking at the pictures, reading the captions, and occasionally reading some of the text on a page that looked interesting. I found myself doing the same thing with "Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns." The book has pictures on almost every page. Text subheads tell you at a glance what each section is about. It's easy to page through it, read the sections that interest you, and skip the rest.

  The chapter on what toys to buy will save you many times the price of the book. The anatomy chapter makes it easy to understand where to do what to your partner, and what areas could be injured. The chapter about "flying" or mystical experience is interesting. The chapter about the types of people you'll meet at clubs is funny. The themes repeated in every chapter, on every page, are communication, respect, and safety.

  I can't give the book 5 stars because the photo reproduction is awful. It looks like 1980s positive mechanical transfer (PMT), a cheap process made obsolete by computers. I read probably 10% of the text. I tried several times, but the writing rarely held my attention. But that's not a problem -- National Geographic readers probably read less than 10% of the articles, yet enjoy the magazine.
  --
  Thomas David Kehoe, author of "Hearts and Minds: How Our Brains Are Hardwired for Relationships"
  
  

• the BEST introductory book to the scene available!
  By AMZ6FEOEHBCFO on 2000-03-06
  We all know that scene newbies need safety advice, to learn how to wield a whip, how to hook up with others, all that important stuff. Many, many books accomplish that basic stuff fairly well.

  But Philip and Molly provide all necessary clues for the clueless in a book much more enjoyable than most, full of cartoons, humor and lots of hot pictures. While you can learn the basics a lot of places, few authors manage to make it such an enjoyable experience.

  Told from a primairly male dom/female sub perspective, the book remains useful to pansexual perverts of all stripes.
  
  

• Well written, yet unprofessional looks
  By on 1999-10-22
  A well written book on a very interesting subject. Gives a thorough and somewhat detailed overview of bdsm issues. For experienced and novices alike.

  The cover of the book doesn't however tell the truth about the graphical / visual quality of the book. Those looking for a beautiful book worth leaving on the coffee table - forget this one.
  
  

• A good overall description of the various elements of S&M
  By on 1999-08-17
  This is a comprehensive overview of many topics associated with the S&M lifestyle.(ex- clothing, terminology,etc.). Being a novice with very limited experience in this area, I found the book very imformative and useful because of my great curiosity about what excites me sexually. It seems that our society looks down on anything that is not "normal," which makes interest in any sexual experimentation that is not "approved" seem perverse and unacceptable. Although I can not vision myself a participant in any "club" that openly displays bondage, etc., I admire the attitude that when two loving individuals want to enhance their sexlife without causing any harm, except with mutual consent, this is a healthy situation and not perverted because it involves bondage and/or S&M. Although I think the information is important, particularly some of the DO NOT'S listed, which can cause harm either physically or mentally, I did not feel arroused after reading this book. Maybe too much information (or "reality")can be a turnoff; like the fact that just before having sex for the first time, some talking is essential in making sure everything is "right," it is a turnoff to start saying "You know I respect you as a person, etc." which will quickly kill the "mood." This book, with ample pictures, interferes with a certain "fanatsy" element of mine that is personal and not always in tune with the presentation. The true "fun" comes from discovering with your partner what truly "turns you on" without having the author(s) demonstrating "techniques." My advice would be to read this, probably have your lover read it or at least discuss certain ideas mentioned, but do not have the book out when actually "experimenting."
  
  
• excellent for beginner's
  By on 2000-08-11
  I was told of this great book by a friend when we were disscussing our interest in bd/sm. He told me of this book and I could not beleive how thorough the book was in explaining all the different technics and proper way of conducting these events! I deffiently recommend this book to anyone who is just starting out in the bd/sm life style!
  
  
• Don't Bother
  By on 2001-11-25
  Got this book because of the reviews that it was the best. Nope. Don't think so. If you are into dungeons and heavy stuff, okay, but for just a little bit of fun now and then, this is not the book to purchase. Lots of pictures of bondage and heavy flogging instruments. Not your average everyday information on fun diversions.
  
  
• Funky sex is fun, too
  By A2VK9WT1U0EP4X on 2006-10-11
  Together Philip Miller, who is dominant, and Molly Devon, a submissive, has written a book that contains more or less everything you'd ever want to know about sadomasochism, bondage, dominance/submission, and alternative and different sexual and non-sexual relationships. They both have lots of experience, and when they wrote Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns, which was first published in 1995, they managed to put together what must be one of the most complete guidebooks ever written about these matters.
  
  It's nothing new, there's thousands and thousands of help-yourself books dealing with human sexuality out there; but what makes this couple's contribution so different is that they write with a great sense of humor. And humor might not be the first thing you associate with stern Masters, tied-up slaves, and weird underground-clubs where people wearing freaky outfits do the freakiest things you could ever imagine.
  
  But BDSM is, as the authors point out, something that's a great deal of FUN, and completely harmless and definitely not "wrong", as long as you know how to do it correctly. Some people want sex to be soft, sweet, romantic, and accompanied by the voice of Julio Iglesias. And some prefer to be tied up, whipped, humiliated, and dealt with brutally by a Master with a whip in his hand or a Mistress with stilettos and a thick strap-on. If you belong to this latter category, then please, don't miss this book.
  
  Because this is one thorough piece of writing, written the perspective of the man being the dominant one with the woman being the submissive one, simply because that's how the authors' relationship looks. But as they themselves make very clear: their view of BDSM is not meant to be universal in any way, and thus both hetero- and homosexuals can make full use of this book.
  
  Some of the issues dealt with include: what's it like being dominant? Being submissive? How do you communicate to make sure no one gets hurt? What different kinds of bondage techniques are there? How do you use your whip correctly? How do you furnish your dungeon? What kind of people can be found in the BDSM-scene? What material are you to use if you want to make your own toys?
  
  And much, much, MUCH more. The book, furthermore, has a large number of pictures and illustrations, an extensive glossary, addresses to different companies and related organizations (mainly in the U.S. though), different internet addresses, fetish magazines, recommended books (both fiction and non-fiction), and more. So in other words, if you're into this way of life, no matter if you're experience or a beginner, you'll sure to find this book a real bargain. The only setback is the constant sense of humor that permeates every part of the book. Sometimes the text deals with quite serious stuff, and on these occasions the humor is nothing but redundant. However, this setback must still be considered to be only a minor one.
  
  
• Fun book, captures the excitement and the romance of s&m
  By on 2002-12-05
  The authors' light yet informative discussion of this subject make this book a must-read for the curious, the new practitioner and the light-at-heart lover of sm (sadism and masochism). I thought the chapter on 'the politics of very strange bedfellows' was hilarious yet true to life - you can find the 'Semper Infidelis', the 'Barnum Maximus', the 'Erectus Perpetua' and the 'Femme Desparata' at almost any bdsm gathering or website. There were some very helpful hints in the book - for example I witnessed a woman being burned clumsily by a person who would have known to hold the dripping candle more than a couple of inches from her body had he read the 'Fire and Ice' advice in the book (start a several feet away and gradually get closer).
  All in all I am glad I read the book - it has kept me safer, saner and a lot less serious in the practice of this wonderful game.
  
  
• Great First Book
  By A28Z64GKW2YAUG on 2004-11-22
  This was the first book I bought on BDSM, several years ago... and I'm glad!
  It's humorous and informative. Even today, I refer it as the quintessential reference on BDSM
  
  
• Almost perfect!
  By AA6NSX18NNKK5 on 2001-07-22
  This book is absolutely delightful. It's informative and humorous. I'd like to give it 4.5 stars, but amazon.com won't let me.

  Rather than repeat what everyone else has already said about this book's many, many good points, I'll just point out my two teensy little criticisms.

  First, even though I know the authors explained the whole bit about their having a male dominant/female submissive perspective, I still found that this detracted slightly from my enjoyment of the book. I know writers should write what they know, and I also understand that putting in a whole lot of that "his or her" stuff can make for some very awkward sentence construction. Nevertheless, a hefty portion of the population (myself included) is going to feel a little weird reading, "OK, guys, here's what to do when your submissive lady needs a..."

  My other criticism, and this is a very minor one, concerns the parodies of the "forgettable characters" on pages 45-47. They're funny, but judgmental. I found the "Very Married, but..." section kind of rankled--maybe it hit a little close to home. The authors should be aware that there are thousands of people out there who are otherwise happily married to vanilla spouses, and are tempted to play outside their marriage, but refrain from doing so on principle. I think that's commendable. I don't think that remaining faithful despite temptation indicates a "lack of courage". Quite the contrary. It's the spineless ones who cheat. The rest of us either convince our spouses to engage in some light play (the lucky ones) or find a harmless outlet, like chatting. People who are fortunate enough to have come to terms with their kinks while they are young and single are just that - fortunate - not superior.

  Overall, though, I agree with what everyone else is saying - this book is terrific.
  
  

• A basic for newcomers and experienced alike
  By on 2002-02-09
  A great book to lead you into the world of BDSM or to lead you further. The Dominant and submissive point of view is nice for both aspects to delve into understanding their own, and their partners line of thinking. A must for any bondage collection.
  
  
• An enlightening read
  By on 2004-04-04
  "Screw the Roses, Send Me the Thorns" is an excellent foray into the world of SM and sexuality in general. Written with humor and a natural love of all things leather the authors easily lead the reader on a fascinating and fun-filled ride. If you only read the sections on human sexuality "Phillip's Treehouse" and "Molly's Quilting Bee" you will learn something vastly important in all things sexual. I cannot rate this book high enough since both my wife and I have feverishly read it and both enjoyed it. If you plan on exploring the world of SM or just want a non-baised tour this book will not lead you astray.
  
  
• From a bottom, not a slave
  By A2PR0V0B4E6SX4 on 2004-06-30
  I found this book very helpful and informative. Good for those who don't believe that submissive means powerless.
  
  
• Great for the beginner and the experienced
  By on 1999-03-03
  Screw The Roses, Send Me The Thorns was recommended to me by a gentleman friend who knew I was new to the scene and wanted to learn more about it. It's gives direct, easy descriptions delivered in a funny way that keeps you feeling like you'll have fun if you try it, not trying to scare you off or tell you what to do. The gentleman wasn't lying when he said you'd turn back to the book time and time again, and that it would become your handbook many times over. Most importantly, it teaches you how to have safe and delicious fun whether you're new or experienced. A definite buy!!!!
  
  
• Simply the leader in the field
  By A24M63NL4TNCBB on 2007-01-03
  Thank you so much, Philip and Molly! Finally a book about BDSM, that is comprehensive, funny beyond all the standard jokes, a true literary achievement and not only a listing of techniques, toys and safety procedures.
  
  Which does not mean they're not in there. Obviously, all the basic What-Not-To-Dos are covered in depths. But what makes this book outstanding are the chapters on the psychology of pain and submission. Here the authors' experience speaks in every sentence. Serious, deep, theoretical analysis and practical ramifications receive equal attention; I felt I was learning with every page I read.
  
  What this book has:
  - Actual "manuals" how to introduce kinky ideas to partners with zero experience
  - A realistic outlook on how people start to get into this business
  - Real-life stories which bear relevance to pretty much anyone
  - EVERYTHING you need to know about BDSM, at first. Everything beyond belongs into specialised books
  
  What this book does NOT feature, thankfully:
  - Desperate attempts to please all sexual orientations, usually resulting in an illegible mixup of he/she/he-she s and all this
  - Boring dwellings on irrelevant side-topics that about 1/1000 of people are interested in
  
  I think this book is a pure pleasure to read for both subs and doms, even though it obviously holds more advice for doms (which suited me fine). I consider myself a beginner with some experience, by the way.
  
  The only slight criticism is the poor printing quality which renders some of the pictures less erotic than I am sure they would otherwise be. By the way, don't be fooled by the number of pages, it comes in textbook format and considerably exceeds most other readers in volume. So if you are exploring BDSM, just shave a few bucks off your next $300 toy shopping and click the "Buy Now" button, will ya?!?
  
  
• Very Well Written.
  By on 1999-09-10
  This book is amazing. It unlocked so many secrets and blew away stereotypes with ease. I rccommend for Dom's and Sub's alike.
  
  

• SM 101: A Realistic Introduction
• The Loving Dominant
• Two Knotty Boys Showing You The Ropes: A Step-by-Step, Illustrated Guide for Tying Sensual and Decorative Rope Bondage
• The New Bottoming Book
• Different Loving: The World of Sexual Dominance and Submission