Mandarin: Lonely Planet Phrasebook Reviews

• Very un-intuitive phonetic system used in this book

  
  By A185HGLJQOH1K7 on 2005-03-19
  I want to add my voice to the chorus who have bemoaned the move away from Pinyin in this edition. This system is anything but better. Because it's so un-intuitive, I found myself constantly having to refer to the table of sounds and spellings at the beginning the book to decipher the correct pronunciation of a word or phrase.
  
  In some cases, the transcriptions are inconsistent in that they don't follow the system described at the front of the book. For example, the spelling sequence 'ow' occurs several times throughout the book but is not in the reference table. Presumably, it represents the sound 'ao' as heard in the English word "couch", but that's only a guess. It could just as easily refer to the diphthong 'ou' as heard in the English word "dough".
  
  That said, a book like this is a useful one to have along when traveling in China. It contains a 40-page grammar section with lots of information about how Chinese works. In typical phrasebook fashion, it also contains several sections organized by subject where one can quickly locate specific words or phrases. It also contains a two-way dictionary, the Chinese-English section being ordered by number of strokes in the character so as to allow Chinese speakers to find English translations.
  
  But do get the previous edition if you can get your hands on it!
  
  
  

• A step backwards from the previous edition

  
  By A3F3NB647SR1MS on 2005-04-05
  This review applies to the Lonely Planet Mandarin Phrasebook, 5th edition, by Garnaut (2004).
  
  I am a beginning level Mandarin speaker who has just spent a month traveling in China, where I used this phrasebook.
  
  As other reviewers have commented, the 5th edition abandoned pinyin for Garnaut's homegrown romanization. This is perhaps excusable and even helpful for some sounds, such as replacing "x" by "sh," "c" by "ts," and "q" by "ch." However, Garnault goes much further. He often replaces "a" by "u" (e.g., Shanghai becomes Shunghai) and he adds "r" in innumerable places. Thus "toilet," which is "ce suo" in pinyin, becomes "tser swor" in Garnaut's book. Garnault comments that these extra r's are common in the Beijing dialect, but I listened in on 100's of conversations in Beijing and I never heard them. In any case, they are confusing. Asking where the "tsir swore" is (or however a novice might pronounce "tser swor") won't get you to the bathroom, but "tsuh swo" (an approximation of "ce suo") works fine. I know from experience that saying Garnaut's "wor syen kun-kun" (page 79) in a shop will get only a blank look; what you want is "wo xiang kan-kan," which sounds *much* different. Most people would pronounce "wor" similarly to "wore," rather than "whoa," which is much closer, and so on.
  
  After a few days of failures with Garnaut's pronunciations, I began asking Chinese friends and English speaking tour guides if certain phrases in Garnaut's book were correct. I often got answers like, "That would be confusing, say it this way" or "Maybe they say it that way in Guangdong, but that isn't Mandarin." I lost all faith in Garnaut's book within a week and began compiling my own notebook of needed phrases with the help of friends and tour guides.
  
  In addition to the misleading pronunciations, the book is filled with errors, omissions, and useless phrases. Thus both "buy" (mai in pinyin, 3rd tone) and "sell" (mai, 4th tone), are given with the 4th tone in the book; that's one case where you had better get the tone right. Many tourists will want to buy jade, but the word for jade is not to be found in the book. "If you come to Scotland you can stay with me"(page 116) is probably the most useless phrase I've ever seen in a phrasebook, and "How can we support Falun Gong" (page 124) will probably get you a tour of the nearest Peoples' Security Bureau office and a quick deportation. What you really need is "GO AWAY!!" for use on the aggressive street vendors and beggars (try "zau kai" or the stronger "qu ni de", which you won't find in this book).
  
  The one good thing about this book is the Mandarin-English dictionary, where you can look up a character by its stroke count. Unfortunately, the printing is so small that I have to carry a magnifiing glass to see the characters.
  
  The best I can do is give this book one star of five, because it is better than nothing at all.
  
  Is there anything better? Yes: the Lonely Planet 4th edition by Rudelson and Qin (2000). It uses pinyin, it's organized differently, it includes the phrases you actually need (even including a page of profanities), and the characters are big enough to see. I consider myself lucky to have found a copy in a hotel bookstore, but unfortunately on my last day in China. I give it four stars rather than five only because it lacks a character dictionary. I also recommend The Rough Guide Mandarin Chinese Dictionary Phrasebook (1997). This book gives you a quick look up of almost any word or phrase you need, with characters, pinin, and pronunciation help. The Rough Guide and the Lonely Planet 4th edition are exactly what most travelers will need.
  
  If the editors at Lonely Planet have any sense at all, they will take the character dictionary from edition 5, add it to edition 4, and reissue the improved edition 4 as a new edition 6 ASAP.
  
  

• Surprisingly poor

  
  By A3OPB9JECFJEHK on 2006-03-06
  Over the years I've been a strong advocate of the Lonely Planet series of books - they've usually been pitched at just the sort of level of travel that suits my budget and interests. This was the first phrase book I bought by them and found it to be very, very disappointing. Not only is their pronounciation system a waste of time learning, many of the translations were found to be incorrect by my chinese friends in terms of sentence structure and word order. A number of key phrases weren't provided and the "strokes" dictionary in the back is also a waste. Also many words used in the phrases were not the same as the ones provided in the dictionary. Basically a lack of consistency throughout...a very, very poor effort and a very disappointed customer. LP should offer a refund.
  
  

• If you've bothered to study pinyin ... then this book sucks

  
  By A2C9G5MGX4WPWJ on 2005-11-01
  If you have no experience with pinyin, then this may well be a fine phrasebook. But if you have studied pinyin (or are planning to) this book will be hopelessly confusing.
  
  What were they thinking of?
  
  My 2 cents: like it or not, pinyin is the standard for transliterated Chinese. I recommend spending a little time to understand pinyin pronounciation and get a pinyin phrasebook. You'll be happier in the long run
  
  

• Warning: No Pinyin

  
  By A3HPSITHFA5GW on 2006-05-21
  I've always been a fan of Lonely Planet Phrasebooks, and had planned to buy this book as well. But I discovered (just in time, fortunately) that this book substitutes a poorly thought out phonetic system for Pinyin, the standard method for transliterating Mandarin Chinese into the Roman alphabet. Thanks Lonely Planet - you've figured out a way to make learning the hardest language in the world even more confusing and difficult!
  
  So if you need a phrasebook for Mandarin, either buy the previous edition of this book or wait till the next edition, when hopefully the editors of Lonely Planet will replace this ill-informed author and rescue what had been, up to now, a really great series.
  
  
• 5th edition is horrible
  By A2YR619AVEMKKJ on 2005-08-10
  I own the 4th edition of Lonely Planet Mandarin Phrasebook and think it is kinda useful. (Despite a large amount of typoes). So I was quite happy when I saw the new edition on sale and assumed that it would be an improved and corrected version. However, when I opened the book I could not believe my eyes. Instead of Pinyin the author uses some weird romanization system that is often totally inaccurate.
  
  My advice is to get a copy of the 4th or wait for the 6th edition (which hopefully uses Pinyin again)
  
  
• Want a frustrating trip during which no one understands you? - Buy this book
  By A2NJ49L6YEZO4T on 2005-08-03
  I will continue to use the fourth edition of this book because the fifth edition is three steps backward. It includes all the drawbacks of phrasebooks while compounding the problem with a Lonely Planet pronunciation schema. A major difficulty is that most Chinese do not speak Mandarin but a local dialect. Even in the large cities there are many who do not speak Mandarin and although you may be able to make yourself understood, you will not understand them!
  
  This edition compounds this problem by basing the pronunciation schema on the Beijing dialect. Although theoretically speaking Mandarin is based on Beijing pronunciation, in actual practice they sound quite different. Add to this the fact that Chinese people are not expecting you to be mispronouncing Chinese with a Beijing accent and you have a recipe for disaster. I saw this first hand on the train last week. Some poor Canadian was trying to make himself understood. He had copied out sentences from this phrasebook and was trying to use them. Not only could he not be understood orally but the Chinese speakers had no idea what he had written down because they couldn't read it either. (Educated Chinese can read pinyin but not the Lonely Planet system.)
  
  The only advance made is that you can look up characters by stroke count. However, this is a negligible benefit as tourists have no chance of figuring out stroke counts and stroke order.
  
  Don't waste your money on this book; it will only make your journey to China more frustrating.
  
  
• I want a refund or LP should release 4th ed as a PDF
  By A1HLG6G435OE0X on 2006-03-04
  This is a terrible book. The author has come up with his own pronunciation system that is only somewhat different than pinyin. So instead of having to learn the Chinese script, pinyin, and pronunciation and tones, you also need to create a key to translate between the LP system and pinyin. This takes a difficult task and makes it even more time consuming.
  
  If I could talk to the people at LP I would suggest giving anyone who bought this disaster a free pdf version of the 4th edition (a guy can dream can't he). Get the "Rough Guide to Mandarin Chinese" which is going to updated in April 2006.
  
  
  
• A disappointing revision
  By AIL1KOYQT2TCJ on 2004-12-31
  For some reason Lonely Planet decided to abandon China's romanized pronunciation system, known as Hanyu Pinyin, in this new edition. They have come up with their own system in an attempt to make pronunciation of Mandarin Chinese easier; however, this is not the case. Hanyu Pinyin is easy to learn and, as a romanized system, does a very good job at describing Mandarin pronunciation. Trying to learn a new system that is used by no one is a waste of time and likely to cause confusion.
  
  Except for some areas, such as Hong Kong, Hanyu Pinyin is the standard romanized pronunciation system for China. It is taught in schools, and many Chinese people I have come across know it, especially if they are educated. You can also chat with it on the Internet (don't even try chatting with this book's system!), and it can be very helpful in improving vocabulary. I have been living in China for more than a year and Pinyin has worked well for me.
  
  However, learning correct Chinese pronunciation cannot be achieved by reading a book. Many sounds in English and Chinese are simply not the same. Not only that, Chinese sounds vary from region to region. The best method for learning correct Chinese pronunciation is to learn Hanyu Pinyin and have native Chinese people help you refine your speech.
  
  I gave this book two stars and only two stars because while it does provide useful information, there are many other books that provide useful information without abandoning China's standardized pronunciation system. For example, Lonely Planet's previous edition (4th edition - April 2000) is a good book (although it does have some typos) that has helped me a lot. Unfortunately, it is becoming hard to find and expensive. If you decide on a different book, make sure it uses Hanyu Pinyin.
  
  
  
• WARNING!!! DO NOT BUY THIS BOOK!!!
  By A2VRB6T3VLQ3AK on 2005-06-22
  WARNING!!! DO NOT BUY THIS BOOK!!! I have been a long time user of the previous version of the Lonely Planet phrasebook. It helped me tremendously as I was learning Chinese and living in there at the same time. I was very excited to hear that there was a new version coming out, but then to my disbelief, Lonely Planet decided to invent their own phonetic spelling of chinese words. They are obviously disconnected from their customers. Until they realize that their most dedicated customers are those that are learning Chinese, and that Pinyin is the standard phonetic system for learning Chinese, they should discontinue publishing anything for the China region.
  
  
• silly pronunciation system
  By A7VD6RP98IT0G on 2005-09-19
  Lonely Planet books usually deserve rave reviews. Their Mandarin Phrasebook, however, uses a system of pronunciation that is much more confusing than helpful. The tragedy is that Mandarin already has a very workable western-script pronunciation system called "pinyin." Pinyin doesn't take long to learn and is very standard in Mandarin Chinese dictionaries and textbooks. A traveler looking to buy a useful phrasebook will be much happier with a standard pinyin phrasebook. .
  
  
• A New Edition Gone Bad
  By A2VHO3DIT80PMU on 2005-10-05
  I live in China and I found the 4th edition book to be a great help, until I lost it. I then tried to replace it with the 5th edition book... It was a waste of money. I was so frustrated that I even wrote Lonely Planet... they said that they went to this new system thinking it would be helpful... I hope that they go back to the standard pinyin system in the 6th edition.
  
  
• Lonely Planet Phrasebooks Are Usually Good...
  By A6Y02XTYPC7VC on 2005-07-30
  Lonely Planet guides, at least before they revamped them, were really, really good. With cultural notes, sensible (or standard) transliteration systems and grammar outlines, I must have 10 of the little books on my shelf. That said, this book is just awful, solely because of the transcription system. The authors could have easily used any one of the pre-existing transliteration systems, or, heaven forbid, one of the official systems (the Pinyin of PRC or the Wade-Giles used in Taiwan). Bottom line, don't get this book. Instead, the system used seems to have been made up at the last minute, and it truly shows. Confusing consonant or vowel clusters replace what, in other systems, were represented with straightforward, single symbols. I honestly would be surprised if anyone could actually learn to pronounce Chinese correctly from this book. This is very unfortunate, asthe older version, which uses the standard Pinyin, is fantastic; it was very useful when I was actually in China. Best of luck to anyone trying to learn Chinese, but look somewhere else for a phrasebook.
  
  
• This is a terrible book.
  By A2LNEI3ZM6O3YP on 2005-08-28
  This book has many problems besides the awful phonetics. A lot of the phrases in it don't make sense in the context their intended for, and the ones that do make sense are usually outdated. I also found that in the glossary of the book some of the words have incorrect or even opposite definitions. I can't beleive something like this can get published.
  
  
• Disappointing for LP
  By ALVB8WLN6MCHK on 2004-11-15
  Lonely Planet miscalculated on this one. In this Fifth Edition, they decided to "improve" upon the rather intimidating Pinyin system for Romanizing Chinese by creating their own pronunciation system that is more natural for English speakers than Pinyin.
  
  Unfortunately, Pinyin is the official Romanization system in the PRC: street signs, highway signs, shop signs, and maps use Pinyin. Readers of this book may be good at pronouncing the words in it, but they will not be able to handle the Romanized Chinese they see on the street.
  
  I've located a used copy of the Fourth Edition (2000), which uses Pinyin, and I'll toss my Fifth Edition. Others seem to be doing the same, since used Fourth Editions are now selling at 2-3 times the price of new Fifth Editions! Too bad, because the Fifth Edition otherwise has a modern, attractive layout that is a genuine improvement.
  
  
• Yeah...
  By APK0ODH8Y6N7U on 2005-02-03
  I agree, they really should have done it in Pinyin. However, I do like picture on the cover...
  
  
• PINYIN IS BACK IN 6TH ED
  By A15JLF2WYJLN1U on 2007-05-25
  Please note that the product sold on this page is the 6th edition September 2006. This edition marks REINTRODUCTION OF PINYIN.
  Best phrasebook on the market though not perfect. Issues with format, not really with content.
  Front grammar section is useful, but compartmentalized format in relatively newer editions makes it harder to follow. Questionable advice claims no tones are more understandable than bad tones.
  Very thorough coverage of situations, including those never encountered (e.g. drugs, expressing interest in indigenous issues). As a 5 years student of Mandarin, I find the phrases accurate if sometimes stilted, but colloquial expressions given are still current.
  I only wish the color coded category tabs were more effectively used. It is hard to find phrases quickly, as it is hard to find specific situations within the five categories of tools, practical, social, food, safe travel, and dictionary.
  Anyhow, I will take this book along on upcoming trip to Beijing. (Have studied mostly modern literature and newspaper in Chinese, still don't know word for can opener!)
  
  
• If you've bothered to study pinyin ... then this book sucks
  By A2C9G5MGX4WPWJ on 2005-11-01
  If you have no experience with pinyin, then this may well be a fine phrasebook. But if you have studied pinyin (or are planning to) this book will be hopelessly confusing.
  
  What were they thinking of?
  
  My 2 cents: like it or not, pinyin is the standard for transliterated Chinese. I recommend spending a little time to understand pinyin pronounciation and get a pinyin phrasebook. You'll be happier in the long run
  
  
• not what i expected
  By A2WDCXBVQ7TS33 on 2006-02-21
  This book is written in the beijing style of mandarin which isn't how they ever teach mandarin in the US or how they speak it elsewhere. it is pretty much useless for learning mandarin if you want to learn it the right way or speak it anywhere other than beijing.
  
  
• Disapointing, I agree
  By A115G60E7I2FPY on 2004-12-08
  I have to agree with Preston's review. I have just bought the fifth edition and was very dissapointed to find that it was not using pinyin. I used the fourth edition recently and found it wonderful. Its a pity they have made this mistake. I Better find a copy of the fourth edition before they are all gone!
  
  
• No Pinyin AND language errors!
  By A5755YTVZ1YL4 on 2006-08-24
  I am usually a big fan of Lonely Planet products but this little book really let me down. I've studied Mandarin for a few years. A book like this should be useful in that a traveler should be able to use it quickly and easily. Unfortunately the move away from "pinyin" to LP's own crazy system is irrational. It is neither intuitive nor useful. My other grievance lies with the book's numerous language errors. If a traveler has problems pronouncing something, he or she should be able to point out the sentence to a fluent speaker. With this book though, you could very well be asking the wrong question. Sometimes the Chinese characters, English translations, or the LP symbols do not match up. Lonely Planet needs to make some adjustments with their next edition if it's going to have any success.
  
  
• A sad rewrite of the (formerly) best Chinese language guide
  By A24APZDCP9GY7V on 2006-08-29
  The abandonment of Pinyin was a devastating mistake. The new edition is useless for learning Chinese or speaking it. I have purchased at least six of the older editions. They will be much sought after now!
  
  
• I wished I read the reviews first
  By A12QJ56DF5ATLS on 2006-09-09
  So I'm out 7 bucks. I don't plan on learning any pinyin. I would just be satisfied with pronouncing some nouns and basic phrases. The pronunciation system they have in the rough guide seems closer and the food section is much more complete. In LP, they don't seem to be in tune with the culture and many of the phrases are not useful - are you going ask in a chinese restaurant if it is "free of animal produce", "free range", "genetically modified", "gluten free"?
  
  
• Indispensable!
  By A33IV4TNIP6OVU on 2005-08-16
  This book was invaluable on our recent trip to Beijing and Xi'an. Particularly useful in that it does not use the "standard", but confusing pinyin system, so that the words are spelled like they sound!
  
  
• I couldn't have survived without it!
  By AF5FIGBBSLDHM on 2006-09-13
  I think for the tourist, this phrasebook is invaluable. Honestly, in 2 weeks I wasn't going to learn to write or speak Chinese well enough to hold a conversation. I used this book as a rudimentary way of communicating, by looking up phrases or words, then pointing to the characters. It really helped me in quite a few different situations. Also made a nice conversation piece on a long distance train ride--the staff were looking up words and trying their English! I can see how this would be useless if you are trying to navigate street signs, or learn to speak the language. But for a tourist who will be in and out of the country, I thought it was great!
  
  
• Useful but Flawed
  By A2IO8HJJPQ9KD4 on 2007-07-10
  This book is flawed, but I use it anyway because it's easy to carry around and use.
  
  My qualifications: I live in Taiwan. I've been studying Mandarin for about a year, but only in a class for the past six months. I have carried this guide around with me almost continuously for most of the past year and have used it in a variety of situations.
  
  The flaws:
  
  -Some words are incorrect. Example: the word for "jump" is "tiao2" not "pao3" (which means "run"). The word given for "pineapple" is the Thai word. My Chinese teacher has also corrected my use of various dairy product words such as "cream" and "yogurt" (I derived them from this book). Perhaps some of this is due to the difference between Taiwan Mandarin and Beijing Mandarin, but I doubt all the errors can be explained in that way.
  
  -The book only has simplified characters, which means it's more difficult to use in Taiwan (which uses traditional characters.) Lonely Planet does not provide an equivalent phrasebook with traditional characters.
  
  -Some of the words are not useful. Why would a traveler need to talk about the ozone layer in Mandarin? If I go to mainland China, would it be sensible to discuss Tibetan separatism or the Falun Gong? Though interesting, some of the vocabulary is useless, or perhaps even dangerous to use on the mainland (I'm speaking from what I have read about free speech in the PRC, not personal experience).
  
  -The pronunciation guide to Pinyin makes generalizations that can be damaging to the accents of students of the Mandarin language. For example, "q" is not equivalent to the "ch" in "churn". It's a different sound altogether (though it seems similar to the untrained Western ear). I understand the author simplified the pronunciation guide for clarity and brevity, but I have found it quite misleading.
  
  -Some of the phrases do not literally mean what the book says they do. Putting the literal meaning in parentheses would be helpful (the guide does this some, but not enough). Example: "bu2shi4" literally means "is not" not "no". (This means it doesn't make sense to use it as a response to statements or questions that don't use "shi4"). Perhaps my Mandarin isn't that good (I've been formally studying for half a year now), but I've noticed differences between literal and supposed meanings several times.
  
  -The cover is not durable. I've had to bind mine with tape to keep it from falling apart.
  
  But, the phrasebook has these good points:
  
  -It's small and easy to carry.
  
  -The dictionary in the back is easy to use and has a lot of useful words.
  
  -This guide is more practical than some others on the market.
  
  
• Um, it totally uses pinyin
  By ASO7YURVE4NBO on 2008-03-13
  I have no idea what most of these reviewers are talking about. This phrasebook absolutely uses pinyin (although it's possible that previous editions did not). This book was without question the most useful thing I had when I lived in China (for six months). Not only does it have excellent sections on grammar, etiquette, and non-verbal communication (which really you will use a lot more than anything else), but it covers basically everything you will need to survive in China. It also has every phrase written in pinyin, for you, and Chinese so if you fail to pronounce it correctly anyway you can always show the book to the person you are trying to talk to. That feature can be used even if you go to Hong Kong or somewhere else where they speak a dialect other than Mandarin.
  
  
• The universe in a nutshell
  By A2NTM14ZGQ6NN3 on 2007-09-26
  This book has almost everything you need, although i think you need some sort of knowledge cause its kinda hard too, but anyways this book its worth it, trust me
  
  
• LonelyPlanet delivers once again
  By A2S24DG5HERFE5 on 2007-10-13
  In my opinion, these are the best phrasebooks out there. The sections are all color coded and organized in an easy to use way, making it easy to locate the phrase you want to use. Much easier than the rest of them out there that are just white page after white page which makes it incredibly hard to dig through. These books will teach you what you need to know.
  
  
• Chinese Phrasebook
  By A1SZUB8FEN54SZ on 2008-03-01
  When I started learning Chinese this book was strongly recommended by a friend. What a disappointment; it's not suited for learning Chinese it's to superficial. This book could possibly be of some help on a visit to China, but if you seriously want to learn Mandarin - choose another one. On the positive side: This book has an appealing layout, and is easy to use.
  
  

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